The Jerry Baldwin Saga: 1998-2020

[CajunSaint]

If you live in Lafayette Parish and you are not aware of unions, then maybe you should do some homework. Here is the link to the LPAE web site.

LPAE
http://lpae.org/

thanks for your attempt at my edification. but, again, where is the "strong" union as mentioned earlier. you gave me a link to a teacher "organization." unions have collective bargaining power. they strike. they have job actions. how long has it been since the teachers of lafayette parish performed any type of job action? or any other type of union around here, for that matter? maybe you should do some homework, too.

[Just1More]

thanks for your attempt at my edification. but, again, where is the "strong" union as mentioned earlier. you gave me a link to a teacher "organization." unions have collective bargaining power. they strike. they have job actions. how long has it been since the teachers of lafayette parish performed any type of job action? or any other type of union around here, for that matter? maybe you should do some homework, too.

Unions don't necessarily strike. They get together to block vote. Teachers belonging to unions and federations have been advised as to the extremely negative consequences in public opinion should they strike or take similar actions. The power of the union is in the organization of block voting and the purchase of lobbyists that lobby on their behalf. You think because you don't see teachers "striking" that there aren't unions. Come on man. Do your homework.

[CajunSaint]

Unions don't necessarily strike. They get together to block vote. Teachers belonging to unions and federations have been advised as to the extremely negative consequences in public opinion should they strike or take similar actions. The power of the union is in the organization of block voting and the purchase of lobbyists that lobby on their behalf. You think because you don't see teachers "striking" that there aren't unions. Come on man. Do your homework.

fine with me. whatever you want to believe.

[Just1More]

fine with me. whatever you want to believe.

I appreciate the permission.

[CajunT]

thanks for your attempt at my edification. but, again, where is the "strong" union as mentioned earlier. you gave me a link to a teacher "organization." unions have collective bargaining power. they strike. they have job actions. how long has it been since the teachers of lafayette parish performed any type of job action? or any other type of union around here, for that matter? maybe you should do some homework, too.

I gave you a link of the local teacher's organization or association that is affiliated with the NEA (National Educators Association); their actions are similar in protecting their jobs. Last time I checked, the NEA is union. The day they took sick days or personal days to attend a political rally in Baton Rouge, that is a job action in my book sir. Not all teachers were replaced, and classes or school days were cut short. Nowhere are employees allowed to take a day off to attend political rallies on the tax payer's dime.

Also, let me address your concern about the lack of oversight over private schools. Which private schools are you questioning? If you are talking about financial oversight because they are accepting vouchers then I agree with your assessment. In fact, I don't believe any private or charter school that does not have a record of graduating students or decent ACT scores should be allowed to receive state vouchers.

When you say that the private schools don't have the accountability as the public system, no one is debating that fact. My question to you is just how much state or federal accountability did my son's school need when 35% of his class scored 27 or higher on the ACT and graduated 97% of their students? And that record was accomplished with teachers making less money, receiving fewer benefits and working similar hours. I also say the same thing to those that bring up standardize testing, when the public education system can produce those results for $6,000 a year per student, then there will be no need for accountability.

[Boomer]

Well break out the moth balls and send it to me.

As a proud recipient of the Biblical interpretation, especially -Pr 13:24 and 23:13 I must say I wasn't offering strick interpretation.

I was just saying it doesn't have to be all beat all the time, some of those Bible writers were sheep herders and in everyday use, they used their rod to just steer or nudge the flock in the right direction. Others I guess had rod only for protection and perhaps saw their sole purpose as a beat stick.

Proper discipline and direction can sometimes be a nudge and doesn't have to automatically include a beating.

jmpo

I forgot the chapter and verse but Speak softly and carry a Big stick would seem to work here!!!! lol

[Just1More]

When you say that the private schools don't have the accountability as the public system, no one is debating that fact. My question to you is just how much state or federal accountability did my son's school need when 35% of his class scored 27 or higher on the ACT and graduated 97% of their students? And that record was accomplished with teachers making less money, receiving fewer benefits and working similar hours. I also say the same thing to those that bring up standardize testing, when the public education system can produce those results for $6,000 a year per student, then there will be no need for accountability.

T, I agree that these private/charter schools that recieve vouchers must be monitored and evaluated for educational effectiveness. I don't actually believe year-ending test score results are the only measure. It is the sticky wicket that a private institution must endure, by taking public money. Being that the voucher students' parents are doing this voluntarily, I don't agree with scrutiny beyond the mass measurements (and a few failures don't constitute a system failure).

I kind of disagree that private schools don't have the level of accountability as does the public system. Private institutions have direct accountability to the parents/guardians of the children attending. You can't get better accountability than that. In the case of the public system, we have represented accountability mixed with a defeated parental component, with a huge amount of political influence in the process. It is the lack of accountability in the public system that has led to these voucher initiatives.

I like the voucher program for it's inherent competition and the challenge it places at the doorstep of the public school system. One thing I find a little disingenuous is to compare the current results in private institutions to public institutions and not agree that the public school system faces issues that the private institutions do not. I hope we all agree that it isn't placing the entire blame on the public school system... much of the failure indeed goes to our failing society as a whole. The key is that we are challenging a system that has built a fortress around itself and has made continous claims that it has the answers. It has itself in a stranglehold and it hasn't managed to clean up it's own house with it's own concepts and endless streams of money. It has done an excellent job of protecting it's servants and blaming parents. It didn't take a rocket scientist to sit in on some of the classroom activity and identify at least some root causes of the problem. And those are going to be addressed first.

Vouchers are really a can opener in my opinion. I don't think they are going to solve, educationally, more than a certain layer of the educational failures. They are going to exacerbate the existing problems in the public schools to begin with. The breaking point (that you would hope we reach quickly) is where we hope to have a complete reversal of educational fortune. We are going to have to first, and probably to the detriment of some students, break the will of the entitlement-minded guardians of the current public education system fortress. If they fight to hang onto their incorrectly identified turf, they are going to take a serious hammering. If I were them, I would not prepare the battle stations. I would clear my cluttered mind and start listening to how they can join this new venture and work within it to make education in Louisiana a success. There are many people that want educators to get a fair shake, including salaries and benefits... but it has to be tied to the successful education of our children.

[CajunT]

T, I agree that these private/charter schools that recieve vouchers must be monitored and evaluated for educational effectiveness. I don't actually believe year-ending test score results are the only measure. It is the sticky wicket that a private institution must endure, by taking public money. Being that the voucher students' parents are doing this voluntarily, I don't agree with scrutiny beyond the mass measurements (and a few failures don't constitute a system failure).

I kind of disagree that private schools don't have the level of accountability as does the public system. Private institutions have direct accountability to the parents/guardians of the children attending. You can't get better accountability than that. In the case of the public system, we have represented accountability mixed with a defeated parental component, with a huge amount of political influence in the process. It is the lack of accountability in the public system that has led to these voucher initiatives.

I like the voucher program for it's inherent competition and the challenge it places at the doorstep of the public school system. One thing I find a little disingenuous is to compare the current results in private institutions to public institutions and not agree that the public school system faces issues that the private institutions do not. I hope we all agree that it isn't placing the entire blame on the public school system... much of the failure indeed goes to our failing society as a whole. The key is that we are challenging a system that has built a fortress around itself and has made continous claims that it has the answers. It has itself in a stranglehold and it hasn't managed to clean up it's own house with it's own concepts and endless streams of money. It has done an excellent job of protecting it's servants and blaming parents. It didn't take a rocket scientist to sit in on some of the classroom activity and identify at least some root causes of the problem. And those are going to be addressed first.

Vouchers are really a can opener in my opinion. I don't think they are going to solve, educationally, more than a certain layer of the educational failures. They are going to exacerbate the existing problems in the public schools to begin with. The breaking point (that you would hope we reach quickly) is where we hope to have a complete reversal of educational fortune. We are going to have to first, and probably to the detriment of some students, break the will of the entitlement-minded guardians of the current public education system fortress. If they fight to hang onto their incorrectly identified turf, they are going to take a serious hammering. If I were them, I would not prepare the battle stations. I would clear my cluttered mind and start listening to how they can join this new venture and work within it to make education in Louisiana a success. There are many people that want educators to get a fair shake, including salaries and benefits... but it has to be tied to the successful education of our children.

"I kind of disagree that private schools don't have the level of accountability as does the public system. Private institutions have direct accountability to the parents/guardians of the children attending. You can't get better accountability than that. In the case of the public system, we have represented accountability mixed with a defeated parental component, with a huge amount of political influence in the process. It is the lack of accountability in the public system that has led to these voucher initiatives."

From the stand point of state or federal oversight, private schools do not have the same accountability as public schools because they are not accepting federal funding. I do agree more accountability is needed for public schools because it has never been about the lack of funds when we are looking at the cost of educating a student in Louisiana at $12,000 per year. Too much money is being filtered off to address cost elsewhere and not getting to the classroom.

I also agree that private schools are more accountable to parents and students, that is what makes them more effective in my book. But parents and students are also held accountable as well because your child must meet their standards of conduct and performance in the classroom or they will not be allowed to continue their education at that school.

[Just1More]

I also agree that private schools are more accountable to parents and students, that is what makes them more effective in my book. But parents and students are also held accountable as well because your child must meet their standards of conduct and performance in the classroom or they will not be allowed to continue their education at that school.

I think we're on the same page and just having a good discussion. Per your last sentence, public schools don't also have the options available to disallow a child from attending their establishment. Many issues are going to surface, beyond just moving voucher worthy students to charter schools. And, we have to be fair, some of those issues are not entirely on the heads of the public schools. Society as a whole is on trial here. And I eagerly await that trial. It is not going to be pretty. But, too many people have cloaked the absolute truths in layers of nonsense and it has gotten to the point you not only cannot get to the second and third order components, you cannot even point to the extremely easliy idientifiable first order components and have a clean, untampered review. The public school system is a sinking ship. We own that ship. There is no one on the "screw the ship" side. It isn't about the ship. We need the ship. It is about having a group of people operating that ship with upside down and sideways rules and logic that no one, even a great mind, can approach it without getting lathered with dung. We have had to take a measure that simply firehoses the ship in order to wash off the dung. Some good teachers are fighting the cleaning. They should be screaming for joy at what may end up saving the ship.

[Cajunrunner]

http://thehayride.com/2012/05/the-ne...posed-to-work/

I agree with this article, parents should have the freedom to send their children where they feel is best, but those parents should also be aware of Mr. Baldwin's background.