The Jerry Baldwin Saga: 1998-2020

[Just1More]

So if we stop giving every single kid a trophy American society will improve? I didn't know we gave every kid a trophy in the first place. But it's an interesting theory you have there.

And what specific "social issues" control the educational system these days?

Again you are really good at making outrageous claims without providing anything specific to back up those claims.

You didn't know that the public education system went down the path suggested by sociologists that kids needed constant affirmation and that it was detrimental to children to participate and be denied a "trophy" or "ribbon" just like the actual "winner"? How old are you? This was a huge implementation in the U.S. public school system. It isn't a "theory".

Are you completely unaware what social issues are infused in modern public schools? Take a child out of the public school system and place them in a private school. Then, ask them to show you their course work and what the teacher focused on. My "claims" are outrageous? Prove me wrong instead of making the accusations that my claims are "outrageous".

And as for parents being such a major factor in education... neither of my parents ever did homework with me. They only asked me if I had done it. I did fairly well because they taught me personal responsibility at an early age. A typical conservative value. Is that specific enough? Gee, that's my personal childhood experience. How much more direct and specific do I need to get?

[Duggie35]

If you want to fix the education system in this State, you can start by putting a big azz paddle in each class room and allow teachers to use it, no questions asked!!! I am certainly no intellectual, but I know that the paddle worked on me and many of my class mates back in the day. As far as I know, we all ended up OK, no worse for the wear and tear on our rear ends and are leading fairly productive lives! But what do I know.

[CajunEXPRESS]

If you want to fix the education system in this State, you can start by putting a big azz paddle in each class room and allow teachers to use it, no questions asked!!! I am certainly no intellectual, but I know that the paddle worked on me and many of my class mates back in the day. As far as I know, we all ended up OK, no worse for the wear and tear on our rear ends and are leading fairly productive lives! But what do I know.

Well I have to totally disagree with the rear end paddle. I witnessed two occurences of teahers or principles smacking a young person. I was appalled by it in elementry school 8th grade 1962, and shocked in my industrail arts class in 1966. I lost respect for the principle in 1958, and saw a man lose his composure with a smart alec kid in 1966.

Beating kids by teachers is not the answer. The fact that a kid "needs" a beating clearly says his or her parents are incapable most of the time to rear that child. I mean in what other universe can an adult hit your kid without serious legal issues. My dad, a man who I feared, spanked me once in my life and it was not very hard, and well deserved. I can assure you if a teacher or principle ever laid a hand on me he would have not talked to the school board. He would have let that teacher know in the stongest terms possible that it better never happen again, and yes if I deserved it I would get additional punishment.

You might trust your teachers, I do not. We have schools filled with good, bad, and even criminal teachers, and I would have no part of them providing corporal punishments to any of my children or grandchildren. Let them tell me when and if there is an issue, I will handle the problem. The fact that some cannot handle it does not mean a teacher should be allowed to beat someone bearing my DNA. I use the word beat because that is what it is, you paddle my child and you go to jail for battery, not paddling, but for you would allow someone you may or may not known anything about to hit your child is nutz.

I used the time period to show this was rare, and not considered proper in St Landry Parhish even then, and we knew these teachers a lot better in that era. Both of the teacher and principle were visably shocked by what they had just done, and I would suspect it may have been fear of having to deal with their anger outburst. It was curious to me that the two people who got manhandled were poor, and I had seen wealthy kids do as much or more and get hardly more than lines.

My final arugment against corporal punishment is that it does not work or create fear in young people, only emense anger. I mean really were you fearful of the paddle at ten, I sure was not? If you used a paddle that would create fear in me I am pretty sure even in that time you might go to jail for battery with a weapon.

I surely am not if favor of kids gone wild, and unfortunately those kids are allowed to do so in the liberal world. Kids should be educated in a large part based on their behavior. Well behaved to pretty well behaved kids who accept dicipline in one school, but the poorly behaved students in another with whatever security is needed to deal with those kids. I know the liberal mentality is to place the bad with the good hoping the bad will see the error of their ways and improve, of course just the opposite happens, the classes go downhill fast.

No! You let some stranger beat your kids, mine are going to be handled by me. For those who are not handled by their parents beatings are not going to help, so why would I want my child treated like one of those.

[CajunRed]

Unless and until there is competition in our school system...here and throughout the country...we will NEVER fix what is wrong with education in this country. Unless that is done, FIFTY years from now we will STILL be discussing this same problem.

[CajunEXPRESS]

Unless and until there is competition in our school system...here and throughout the country...we will NEVER fix what is wrong with education in this country. Unless that is done, FIFTY years from now we will STILL be discussing this same problem.

I am for vouchers, but now without some oversight. I mean Baldwin will have millons of our dollars and teach with a dvd, teachers who may or may not be literate? The public schools are horrible, but that does not mean we simply say yea you pass the state minimum for a school and you get millions. In waht universe can you get millions of dollars with a phone call? There has to be something between these two extemes.

There are a few families who would take their kids out of failing schools who are poor yet responsible. I suspect there will be a lot more who are poor and not responsible, but buy into the private avenue will fix what I cannot. Those kids are quickly exited from private schools. Parental involvement is one of the three prime reasons private schools work. Do you trust J Baldwin to hire people who can teach? I sure do not, but I am excited about it.

[CajunRebel]

Let's take your last paragraph first. There's a difference between the past and now. And, I "know" you can "go through" the public education system and come out well educated. For the most part, you are learning pretty much on your own. There are exceptions to very good public schools and teachers... but they are not the norm.

I never stated that my derogatory use of the term "intellectual" denoted a Republican or Democrat. Although, in 84.6% of my pseudo-intellectual usage, I'm referring to liberals. I'm not going into a diatribe on the reasoning behind that. If you don't like it, just say so. I'll live with your objection. I probably should have used the term "pseudo-intellectual" in this instance... I made the mistake of taking a shortcut. True intellectualism, as I refer to it, is complimentary. A pseudo-intellectual is a highly educated individual lacking in common sense and a practical application of logic. They, unlike most true intellectuals, move around the political arena referring to themselves as "intellectuals".

I asked you to read my former post on where I believe "they" contributed to the destruction of the current public school system. I am not removing the blame for the deterioration of the parental component of education on the school system. But, I am firmly blaming the pseudo-intellectuals. They are the "everyone is a winner", "no school prayer or moment of silence", "less dress code and hair restrictions", "less or even no corporal punishment", "less fundamentals of education, more social learning", "ebonics has a place", "standardized testing is bias", "we know better in teaching sex education", "history revisionism", "evolution, but no intelligent design", the list goes on.

You wish for me to name names. Why is that necessary? First, I believe some people in specific positions of authority in the Louisiana school system are puppets. Why call out the puppet? They are manhandled by other entities. Also, just to be clear... when did it become inappropriate to make a point using "they"? Are you taking personal offense to my comments? Then you go to the trouble of telling me who doesn't apply.

Not only do I agree with T that the teacher's union (and you've agreed with that point) has overstepped protecting the unqualified teacher, but I know quite a few public school teachers and they tell me of the ridiculousness of the school system and it's administrators. So, why am I out of line calling out the public school system exactly?

Well the funny thing is that most of the things you listed as being "problems" don't actually exist in the first place.

- Everyone is NOT a winner. The fact that so many students have failing grades proves that teachers don't give students grades they didn't earn.
- Dress code restrictions are STRICTER than they have ever been in history.
- Using Ebonics WILL NOT get you an A in English.
- Standardized testing IS NOT considered biased and is a tool relied on heavily by the state to measure performance.
- Intelligent design IS TAUGHT in Louisiana public schools.
- "Revisionist history" IS NOT taught in Louisiana public schools.

With only a few exceptions conservatives have been running this state for at least the past 30 years. So I don't know how you can assume that liberals are in control of education and that liberal policies are to blame for failure. (BTW don't mistake me for a liberal sympathizer. But I'm not going to allow you to place blame on groups that don't deserve the blame. That would be "intellectually dishonest.")

But honestly most educators don't see things the way you do. In fact most people in general don't see things the way you do. If you go to an educational policy or school board meeting (I've been) there's no liberal vs. conservative battle. People there don't worry about the politically charged issues that you care so much about. They don't fight over sex ed or saggy pants at these meetings. They are much more concerned with test grades, effective teaching, and effective use of resources. Unlike you they aren't driven by political ideology and they don't see things as liberal vs. conservative.

You remind me of those people who used to say they wanted to fight "the man." They never got around to figuring out who "the man" was but they sure were ticked off by that person. Replace "the man" with "intellectuals" and we have Just1More. You're just mad. You don't have a clue who you're mad at and you can't quite figure out a concrete reason to be mad at them. You're just mad.

[CajunRebel]

Unless and until there is competition in our school system...here and throughout the country...we will NEVER fix what is wrong with education in this country. Unless that is done, FIFTY years from now we will STILL be discussing this same problem.

I think competition would do wonders for our schools. But I don't think it will fix everything. Even with the competition there will still be bigger problems to tackle.

[CajunRebel]

i'm just not sure what this "teacher union" business is all about. here? in LA? maybe the northeast or the midwest. but, in LA? teacher unions? please remember a couple of other things: public schools do not have the luxury of selective admissions, and, there is no state accountability for private and parochial schools. so, how do we as the taxpayers footing this bill, know for certain that the parent of the child in the "f" public school is enrolling his child in a "b" or "a" private school. because of the perception that private is better? the state knew better than to force the privates to accept accountability, but there should be some accountability or else in most cases we're just dealing with perception in the end.

Earlier this year almost every public school in the state had to cancel classes for a day because there weren't enough teachers to teach classes. They were all in Baton Rouge at a union-organized protest. Strong teacher's unions do exist in this state and they are partly responsible for fighting against a free-market system in education where the best teachers are paid the best and the worst teachers are paid the worst. Instead everyone gets paid the same and there's no reward for doing a good job and no real pressure to do a good job.

And to your second point, the state needs to make sure that any school accepting their money meets acceptable standards. Audits should be performed yearly to ensure that the students are receiving a "good education." There are already state-mandated standards in place that all private schools must adhere to.

[Turbine]

My dad, a man who I feared, spanked me once in my life and it was not very hard, and well deserved. I can assure you if a teacher or principle ever laid a hand on me he would have not talked to the school board. He would have let that teacher know in the stongest terms possible that it better never happen again, and yes if I deserved it I would get additional punishment.

Neither here nor there but it showed skewed perception . . . one of my best friends growing up was "never -not once- spanked" by his parents, at the time his logic was "they know better" I have to ask him how he feels today.

Growing up I never talked back to my dad. "I knew better."

[Just1More]

Well the funny thing is that most of the things you listed as being "problems" don't actually exist in the first place.

- Everyone is NOT a winner. The fact that so many students have failing grades proves that teachers don't give students grades they didn't earn.
- Dress code restrictions are STRICTER than they have ever been in history.
- Using Ebonics WILL NOT get you an A in English.
- Standardized testing IS NOT considered biased and is a tool relied on heavily by the state to measure performance.
- Intelligent design IS TAUGHT in Louisiana public schools.
- "Revisionist history" IS NOT taught in Louisiana public schools.

With only a few exceptions conservatives have been running this state for at least the past 30 years. So I don't know how you can assume that liberals are in control of education and that liberal policies are to blame for failure. (BTW don't mistake me for a liberal sympathizer. But I'm not going to allow you to place blame on groups that don't deserve the blame. That would be "intellectually dishonest.")

But honestly most educators don't see things the way you do. In fact most people in general don't see things the way you do. If you go to an educational policy or school board meeting (I've been) there's no liberal vs. conservative battle. People there don't worry about the politically charged issues that you care so much about. They don't fight over sex ed or saggy pants at these meetings. They are much more concerned with test grades, effective teaching, and effective use of resources. Unlike you they aren't driven by political ideology and they don't see things as liberal vs. conservative.

You remind me of those people who used to say they wanted to fight "the man." They never got around to figuring out who "the man" was but they sure were ticked off by that person. Replace "the man" with "intellectuals" and we have Just1More. You're just mad. You don't have a clue who you're mad at and you can't quite figure out a concrete reason to be mad at them. You're just mad.

Are you a part of the existing public education system (directly)? I sense that you don't wish to peel the onion and look at the root cause failures in this system. I don't really buy that you aren't a liberal sympathizer. You are way too fast to defend them. You argued with me that "most professors aren't liberal"... and that "the mainstream media isn't liberal"... a bunch of "your" opinion-laden responses. So, everyone is discussing "teacher effectiveness" and "better use of resources" at the meetings they attended. Is that the problem? Was that likely the discussions 10, 20 years ago. Did it correct anything? Oh, and even if conservatives have been voted in to many positions, they did not build this educational infrastructure and have had hell tearing it down. You are incorrect as to who actually has control over the Louisiana education system. The voucher program is a conservative answer... and it is not a perfect one. But, something had to begin challenging the existing system. If conservatives were already in charge, as you stated, then why would conservatives be deploying this voucher system?

Let me ask this, those that used "the man" as the antagonist in their examples... just because they couldn't name them by name... were these people's claim's unfounded? There are many that say "government" or "they" are creating more bad than good. Do you not believe this "swarm" is out there? You seriously don't believe that a liberal application of values has been heavily responsible for the degradation of our public school system and our societal problems as a whole. I do.

You keep ignoring portions of my posts. I told you that I call the culprits "pseudo-intellectuals". They are my "the man". Now that you have exonerated the "pseudo-intellectuals" and the "liberals" from being a big part of the problem... what is the problem with the public school system? And if you are going to point at "parents"... I will point you back to the "pseudo-intellectuals" and "liberals". If you have a problem with that... I seriously do not care.

And by the way, since you said that "most educators" and even "most people" don't agree with me... could you please list them by name? Also list "those people" you said I reminded you of. It's an old trick of yours that attempts to lower the credibility of my arguments.

[CajunEXPRESS]

Turb, corporal punishment is not needed ever. I had three kids and all were head strong. From the fist moment they could make a decision I made the decision for them. They never knew they could not obey me. As they grew I allowed them more and more opportunities to make decisions. When they screwed up I reduced those options until they showed growth.

No doubt some people believe in the spare the rod spoil the child theory but it is bunk. I have known as many parents with great kids who were never spanked as those who were spanked. I haved known as many with problem kids who were never spanked as those who were spanked. There is no basis for hitting a kid.

If you find you have to hit your kid, then you missed the boat when they were toddlers, and are now in a reactive phase. In a very real sense a total failue. Now if your kid is a sociopath, or psychopath no amount of parenting with or without physical disipline will help. That kid needs lots of professional help, all others with the right mindset can be properly handeled without hitting them, and in no circumstance can I understand a parent being OK with some authority figure beating their kids.

[Cajun90]

When I reviewed the private schools that are accepting vouchers it really wasn't surprising. Almost all of these schools struggle financially. I'm not saying they are bad schools but the driving force at this stage is money.

Every school that I have seen listed as opting out is a financially sound school and they see no benefit to accepting voucher students. Just an observation of what is driving the train at this stage.