2011 Mississippi River Spring Floods

[BananaHammock]

_ That's not what I'm saying Big Ed. What I am saying is you can look at those charts & see distinct rises in the levels just like opening a choke on well on one platform & watching the rate go up on another platform 10 miles away 10 minutes later. I guarantee you I could show it to you & your mind would be blown. I can show you how an inch of rain that would fall in Missouri would make its way felt in Mississippi in less than 24 hours. The thing people need to realise is water is noncompressible & can send messages for miles down stream. These charts are unbelievable in what they can tell you. This is a fact.

I respect your work, but please don't tell me it's not so until you have taken the time to review them with someone who can read them. _

Give it up already. You are like the kid in school who always asks "why" after everything the teacher explains. I will break the news softly to you: You are not an expert on everything (or anything for that matter).

[Bandwagon King]

_ http://www.mvn.usace.army.mil/bcarre/morganza.asp

Helumt, why if gates are closed did discharge rate go up? _

Sorry, I couldn't resist. The answer is simple. It didn't go up. It is a physical impossibility to decrease the cross sectional area of a flow port by nearly 33% & increase the flow rate at all.

[CharlieK]

_ Sorry, I couldn't resist. The answer is simple. It didn't go up. It is a physical impossibility to decrease the cross sectional area of a flow port by nearly 33% & increase the flow rate at all. _

If I have a tool (downhole) with a given crossectional inside area, I can easily increase the flow rate through that tool by increasing the pump pressure. I could also decrease the cross sectional area of that tool by your 33% and increase the pump pressure and flow that same amount. Now, I might flow cut that tool (or maybe not, depending on the material, actual flow velocity, media being flowed, etc), but that wasn't the question.

Now, since WE ARE NOT DEALING WITH A DOWNHOLE TOOL OR A DRILLING RIG OR A PRODUCTION PLATFORM my question to Helmut still stands.

[Bandwagon King]

_ If I have a tool (downhole) with a given crossectional inside area, I can easily increase the flow rate through that tool by increasing the pump pressure. I could also decrease the cross sectional area of that tool by your 33% and increase the pump pressure and flow that same amount. Now, I might flow cut that tool (or maybe not, depending on the material, actual flow velocity, media being flowed, etc), but that wasn't the question.

Now, since WE ARE NOT DEALING WITH A DOWNHOLE TOOL OR A DRILLING RIG OR A PRODUCTION PLATFORM my question to Helmut still stands. _

I want to hear the answer myself. I can't wait to hear the answer to this. Remember we aint talikng oil wells, we're talking open channel flow. The head pressure isn't increasing because the level isn't increasing. Now quit trying to act like a jerk & look at the facts. You might be increasing velocity but you aint increasing flow rate because the CROSS SECTIONAL FLOW AREA HAS BEEN DIMINISHED BY ALMOST 1/3.

[CharlieK]

_ I want to hear the answer myself. I can't wait to hear the answer to this. Remember we aint talikng oil wells, we're talking open channel flow. The head pressure isn't increasing because the level isn't increasing. Now quit trying to act like a jerk & look at the facts. You might be increasing velocity but you aint increasing flow rate because the CROSS SECTIONAL FLOW AREA HAS BEEN DIMINISHED BY ALMOST 1/3. _

If cross sectional area has been reduced, and I increase the pressure I will keep the FLOW RATE tha same (or even increase it). I will also increase velocity, which is why the risk of flow cutting increases. I'm not saying this is what is happening with the river I am saying your statment of it being a physical impossibility to reduce area and increase flow rate is wrong.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, you are just wrong.

And I'm glad you finally admit this is not a oil well.

[CajunRed]

Honey...please pop some more popcorn. I'm gonna be here a while. :-)


igeaux.mobi

[Bandwagon King]

_ My My. I figured you had a motive for wanting the gates closed. If you buddy had to close well that's the price he pays for locating his business where it floods. Maybe he should consider moving. I have zero sympathy for cases like that.

So far as the Basin being a floodway, well that's exactly what it is and anybody that has an interest in the floodway whether for business, pleasure or for a home does so at their own risk because happenings like this are to be expected and there is no guarantee that it won't happen again next year.

You're damn right I have a motive for wanting those gates closed ASAP. If you don't have one then you're touched in the head mister. So you don't feel sympathy for people who make thier livings in the basin. Do you have sympathy for the people down stream of the levee system who will be staring down the barrel of a loaded gun for another 5-6 weeks in your scenario? How about the thousands of animals who will be killed by your scenario? You got any sympathy for them?

What about South Lafayette? The scenario I posted back to Turbine is absolutely the most dangerous one of all the scenarios in this little drama. On June 27th, 1957 the lower Atchafalaya was still high due to drain off from winter snow & spring rain. When Hurricane Audrey hit land in Grand Chenier it has been reclassified as a Cat. 4 storm, but the maximum clocked wind speed was 105 MPH. This made her in reality a Cat. 2 hurricane. Where do you think the 20+' strorm surge that made Audrey such a killer came from?

Would you have any sympathy for the people who would have 4-10' of water in their houses & the 400,000 or so people that would be displaced if a Cat. 3 hurricane made landfall a month early between Morgan City & Cameron? Or should they have known not to live in the city of Lafayette even though the odds of this happening are 1 in 50?

[Mb306]

I thought you were done posting on this subject.

[Bandwagon King]

_ I thought you were done posting on this subject. _

THIS IS MY LAST POST. No wonder you people can't get any support outside the 12 square block area of UL. You have managed to make fun of & belittle every single person I can think of who dwells outside the city limits of Lafayette. Yet you act like you're too good to carry the name Lafayette as part of the title of your school. You people are absolutely wonderful. It's the rest of the freaking planet that's all screwed up. Not only are they screwed up, they are out to get you, you, & only you.

[wcd35]

Ever think its maybe just you and not everyone else?

[jumboragncajun]

http://www.mvn.usace.army.mil/bcarre/morganza.asp

Helumt, why if gates are closed did discharge rate go up?

CharlieK, an article on KATC's website explains it. When they measured the flow with 17 bays open, it actually measured at 170k cfs, not the 114k they were expecting. They closed three bays and reduced to 140,000 cfs.

I have been following the project flood charts daily for the last month. Since Morganza opened there have been some minor discrepancies with the Qin and Qout summations. Qin being flow from Natchez and Qout being ORCS, Morganza, and flow at BR. So they estimate being
Off did not surprise me.

igeaux.mobi

[HelmutVII]

_ You're damn right I have a motive for wanting those gates closed ASAP. If you don't have one then you're touched in the head mister. So you don't feel sympathy for people who make thier livings in the basin. Do you have sympathy for the people down stream of the levee system who will be staring down the barrel of a loaded gun for another 5-6 weeks in your scenario? How about the thousands of animals who will be killed by your scenario? You got any sympathy for them?

What about South Lafayette? The scenario I posted back to Turbine is absolutely the most dangerous one of all the scenarios in this little drama. On June 27th, 1957 the lower Atchafalaya was still high due to drain off from winter snow & spring rain. When Hurricane Audrey hit land in Grand Chenier it has been reclassified as a Cat. 4 storm, but the maximum clocked wind speed was 105 MPH. This made her in reality a Cat. 2 hurricane. Where do you think the 20+' strorm surge that made Audrey such a killer came from?

Would you have any sympathy for the people who would have 4-10' of water in their houses & the 400,000 or so people that would be displaced if a Cat. 3 hurricane made landfall a month early between Morgan City & Cameron? Or should they have known not to live in the city of Lafayette even though the odds of this happening are 1 in 50? _

Well actually no I don't. They make a good living when things like this don't happen but they take a gamble every year and most times they win. This year they didn't. They know they are taking a chance but they do it anyway. So far as the people down there subject to flooding I ask them "why do you live in an area that floods so much." They get flooded with things like this and with hurricane storm surge. after a while you would think they would get tired of it. As far as the animals, I think they are handling the situation alot better than you are. The basin is a hydraulic capacitance and nothing more. We get the benefit of recreation and natural resources from it solely from the grace of God.

So far as the Hurricane matter, this is what i think you should do. Go to New Orleans and request time to address the New Orleans City council. Tell them you want to enlist their support to petition the Corps of engineers to close all the Morganza flood gates ASAP. Then tell them you are concerned about the potential for a hurricane causing a storm surge of up to 27.0 feet MSL up the Atchafalaya Basin. Not only that, a buddy of mine had to shut down his business because of the high water. Do you think they will say "why thank you Mr King we did not realize all of this and we are certainly sorry for any problems this situation may have caused you. As a matter of fact, we are so stupid to not think of it ourselves. Please leave your name and number with the clerk so we can contact you as soon as we have contacted the Corps of engineers". I really don't think that would happen, they would probably call Marie and put a Gris Gris on you that would result in every well you drilled for the rest of your life being drier than a popcorn fart. Can you imagine that --- lets put more water down to New Orleans with Hurricane season coming and they are at flood stage down there from now to as far as they can make predictions. Yeah that's the ticket ----they can really handle floods on the Mississippi PLUS a storm surge from a Hurricane. Absolutely brilliant. I think you should take your medication.