Louisiana's Push for Tier One status

[HoustonCajun]

Can someone explain how LA Tech is Tier 1 and we are not? I seem to remember a comparison of our universities and UL was way ahead of Tech in all or most major categories and we dwarfed them in research and endowment. I don't think they offer more PhDs than we do. So, how is this possible? What is UL doing to match them at Tier 1? Can some post the comparison?

[Boomer]

Some of the categories that hurt us are --Alumni % of gifting to your school---Retention and graduation rates (these are getting better and better at UL as we raised our entrance requirements)-----I hadheard mentioned amount of money dedicated to PHD programs---Good question and I would like to know all the criteria and get to work on each criterium ASAP!!!

[USL1970]

U.S. News issues an annual ranking using a weighted scale incorporating the following criteria:

Peer assessments (subjective)
Retention (graduation rate and freshman retention rate),
Faculty resources,
Student Selectivity,
Financial resources,
Graduation rate performances (predicted versus actual graduation rate), and
Alumni giving rate


Note: Tier 1 schools were those ranked in the top 132 schools based on this criteria; however, the last ranking has expanded the number in the Tier 1 ranking - now approximately top 200 ???? don't really remember.

Tech got in this year rankings as a result of more schools now being classified as Tier 1.

LSU was usually rated aroung 127 - 132 in the rankings - near the cutoff point - but now has some room to breath with the expanded number of schools classified as Tier 1.

[LATechDawgs]

Can someone explain how LA Tech is Tier 1 and we are not? I seem to remember a comparison of our universities and UL was way ahead of Tech in all or most major categories and we dwarfed them in research and endowment. I don't think they offer more PhDs than we do. So, how is this possible? What is UL doing to match them at Tier 1? Can some post the comparison?

I don't have the time to post the exact data in a more manageable format, but I'll give you some of the particular statistics in the raw, and you can look it up to verify me.

Most current (2004 Cohort) Bachelor's degree (150% or 6-year) Graduation rate data: http://as400.regents.state.la.us/pdfs/grate/grs0405.pdf


LSU A&M: 65.9%
LA Tech: 53.3%
ULL: 43.3%
Every other public university: <37%

And rounding out the bottom:
SUNO: 5.1%

The "First Award Category" is shows more disparity between Tech and UL, so bachelor's is the more generous category.

2010-2011 Time to Degree: Years to graduation average, Transfer and First time students all included)
1. LSU (4.7)
2. LA Tech (5.1)
3. ULL (5.7)

Those two stats play a part. % of alumni donations is a big factor, as well as class size. Our student/faculty ratio is a good bit lower, and that's just the trouble that comes with having a large enrollment.

This is a link to some of the stats posted by one of the Tech guys on BBB when the Tucker Commission was in full-swing last year. A few of the stats are relevant to USNWR, but most are just pretty dang interesting, especially regarding Grambling/Southern.

http://www.latechbbb.com/forum/showt...mmission/page9

[LATechDawgs]

Here's another bunch of statistics... The Alumni giving rate is on this thread: http://www.latechbbb.com/forum/showt...demic-Profiles

Alumni Giving rate:

ULL: 7%
Tech: 14%

[LATechDawgs]

Lastly,

I don't know ULL's statistic for this, but I *think* Freshman Class ACT/SAT score is included in the USNWR.

Tech recently edged closer to LSU (~25) for an incoming freshman ACT of 23.6.

Edit: UL is 22.4 as of 2010 Fall.

[HoustonCajun]

I don't have the time to post the exact data in a more manageable format, but I'll give you some of the particular statistics in the raw, and you can look it up to verify me.

Most current (2004 Cohort) Bachelor's degree (150% or 6-year) Graduation rate data: http://as400.regents.state.la.us/pdfs/grate/grs0405.pdf

The biggest disparities between UL and Tech center around enrollment, research and endowment. Research and Endowment, as well as number of PhDs, I would have thought, would be the key criteria. I'm not sure I understand what those other categories have to do with determining Tier 1 status. Also, this is a US News & World Report ranking. Isn't there a more significant educational ranking that determines Doctoral level? Aren't UL and Tech both at High Research level or something to that effect with both schools approaching Doctoral level? Can someone elaborate on that?

LSU A&M: 65.9%
LA Tech: 53.3%
ULL: 43.3%
Every other public university: <37%

And rounding out the bottom:
SUNO: 5.1%

The "First Award Category" is shows more disparity between Tech and UL, so bachelor's is the more generous category.

2010-2011 Time to Degree: Years to graduation average, Transfer and First time students all included)
1. LSU (4.7)
2. LA Tech (5.1)
3. ULL (5.7)

Those two stats play a part. % of alumni donations is a big factor, as well as class size. Our student/faculty ratio is a good bit lower, and that's just the trouble that comes with having a large enrollment.

This is a link to some of the stats posted by one of the Tech guys on BBB when the Tucker Commission was in full-swing last year. A few of the stats are relevant to USNWR, but most are just pretty dang interesting, especially regarding Grambling/Southern.

http://www.latechbbb.com/forum/showt...mmission/page9

[LATechDawgs]

The Classifications for research universities are these three:

1. Very High Research Acitivity
2. High Research Activity
3. Doctoral/Research

It is a rank ordering. (IE, schools will progress upwards from Doctoral/Research upwards to VH)

Tech and ULL are both (RU/H) or Number 2 above.

RE: Validity

The USN&WR utilizes the Carnegie Classifications system, which is a very well respected metric.
http://classifications.carnegiefound...ions/basic.php

[Boomer]

Well since there are more part time employed students now entering the college scene, these stats favor TECH since there are no jobs up in RUSTON---- so they can go to school with more Hours taken!!!! LOL

[USL1970]

The author of this article argues that universities may be chasing the wrong goals to become a Tier I University by increasing costs without corresponding improvements in knowledge and learning.

Could Tier I be just a marketing campaign for universities to raise more funds?

Interesting discussion.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_1...lege-rankings/

[California Cajun]

The author of this article argues that universities may be chasing the wrong goals to become a Tier I University by increasing costs without corresponding improvements in knowledge and learning.

Could Tier I be just a marketing campaign for universities to raise more funds?

Interesting discussion.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_1...lege-rankings/

Same argument can be made for building a major college athletic program. You are competing for attention and support so that your university can grow. If you don't impress the impressionable, someone else will. I'm sure there are intermediate steps that don't directly translate to a better classroom experience, but in the long run more money creates more opportunities that will make a real difference.

[Boomer]

Come on Boomer. You can do better than that.

----Sorry Beau---I retired from Jostens when the computer deal came out--- If you just knew my friends and classmates that can't do half of what I can on this thing---Facebook is the really scary deal!!!

[basinbear]

This article is completely accurate. It is impossible to numerically "rank" a University and believe that system to be accurate. Yet fans and Conferences pay attention to the rankings published by a bankrupt weekly that is no longer in print. USN&WR procedures and measures are highly subjective. The classification or "rating" procedures used by Carnegie are the most accurate. But the game is played by everyone so we must also play.

[Boomer]

And how about Tulane sending in amended data to off set the lies about their MBA program---they literally just sent in bogus data!!! Or how about UL reporting the wrong amount of our endowment by about 100 million dollars!!!

[basinbear]

And how about Tulane sending in amended data to off set the lies about their MBA program---they literally just sent in bogus data!!! Or how about UL reporting the wrong amount of our endowment by about 100 million dollars!!!

I believe that UL sent in its total annual research dollars instead of Foundation dollars....shortchanged ourselves about 85 million...paging Moe, Larry and Curly....again