The Case Against Small Ball

[MarlinMan3]

While yes, mlb sac bunt numbers have vastly decreased, i think it is still more than people thought. But just because something happens in mlb doesnt make it good or the right thing to do.....

[VObserver]

Last couple of things I would like to mention......

Keep in mind, the title of this thread is "The case against small ball" and I'm just trying to give a different view / perspective.

To your point JMV, there have been bunt attempts that I didn't understand as well. Including the couple of scenarios you mentioned in a previous response. However, can anyone on this board say without doubt that the player didn't choose the bunt attempt on their own? Maybe read something in the defense and trying to make something happen, didn't feel confident with their matchup vs the pitcher they were facing, etc.? I am not saying that was the case, but may be possible. I'm just not sure that in any instance those attempts (be it successful or not) changed any outcomes. Meaning, although some (maybe many) scratched their heads I don't think it warrants such frustrations and annoyance that it is causing some, other than just a personal dislike to a certain coaching style / philosophy.


Also as I have stated earlier in my very limited action on here, using "season averages" and "stats" to prove a point or drive home a narrative is flawed and subjective at best. My logic is simply this, I have read about the .300+ averages being allowed to hit and drive in runs for big innings. What are those same averages vs. elite pitching, in big moments of high pressure situations. Nothing against those young ladies (I have coached several and wish every one of them success) but I would think the reality of it is the numbers go way down, hence creating an even higher run probability for the strategic bunt vs. the "big inning".

I am also far from a stats expert but I can almost guarantee that the "big inning" and batting averages diminish significantly against elite pitching. Maybe VO can get us some numbers based on that criteria. I may actually be shocked and learn something new, but then again what is considered "elite" pitching becomes somewhat subjective. LOL

Of the games I have seen this year, which is all the home games and all the road games that were streamed, except the FSU game, we have not yet faced elite pitching, though in the last aTm game, their pitcher had a near elite outing, as did the 2 pitchers LSU used against us. As of today, only 10 Division 1 teams have played 15 or more games and have a team ERA under 2, and we do not play any of them. I have not seen OU play, so I have no opinion of their pitchers, but I can assure you that there are no elite pitchers in the SBC this year, though there are a few that might have an elite performance on a single day.

None of us believe that UL can achieve a deep run in the NCAA Tournament this year. Many of us do believe that we can win the conference and the conference tournament. I count myself among that group.

I can say without doubt that there is not a single SBC game in which I would put on the sac bunt in the first 3 innings of play, barring very unusual circumstances.

As to your assertion about using averages over a substantial and relevant sample size is absolutely true if you are talking about predicting the outcome of a single event. You are absolutely wrong in asserting that averages do not accurately predict the usual outcome of a large number of similar events.

[Turbine]

Batting average is unchanged after a successful sacrifice bunt

If its successful its not a sacrifice.

Sacrifice means "out"

[MarlinMan3]

If its successful its not a sacrifice.

Sacrifice means "out"

False- signed MLB

A sacrifice bunt occurs when a player is successful in his attempt to advance a runner (or multiple runners) at least one base with a bunt. In this vein, the batter is sacrificing himself (giving up an out) in order to move another runner closer to scoring. When a batter bunts with a runner on third base, it is called a squeeze play and, if successful, is still recorded as a sacrifice.

A sacrifice bunt does not count against a player's batting average or on-base percentage, as the decision to sacrifice often isn't made by the player. Typically, a player will be given a sign by the third-base coach, instructing a bunt attempt. In National League ballparks, pitchers are frequently called upon to sacrifice bunt.

If an error is committed and the batter reaches base, he is still credited with a sacrifice. However, if the sacrifice bunt attempt turns into a single, the batter is simply credited with a hit and no sacrifice is given. An official scorer may determine that a batter was exclusively trying to bunt for a base hit and choose not to give him credit for a sacrifice. However, this is rare in sacrifice situations (with less than two outs and men on base).

[raginrevival]

Last couple of things I would like to mention......

Keep in mind, the title of this thread is "The case against small ball" and I'm just trying to give a different view / perspective.

To your point JMV, there have been bunt attempts that I didn't understand as well. Including the couple of scenarios you mentioned in a previous response. However, can anyone on this board say without doubt that the player didn't choose the bunt attempt on their own? Maybe read something in the defense and trying to make something happen, didn't feel confident with their matchup vs the pitcher they were facing, etc.? I am not saying that was the case, but may be possible. I'm just not sure that in any instance those attempts (be it successful or not) changed any outcomes. Meaning, although some (maybe many) scratched their heads I don't think it warrants such frustrations and annoyance that it is causing some, other than just a personal dislike to a certain coaching style / philosophy.


Also as I have stated earlier in my very limited action on here, using "season averages" and "stats" to prove a point or drive home a narrative is flawed and subjective at best. My logic is simply this, I have read about the .300+ averages being allowed to hit and drive in runs for big innings. What are those same averages vs. elite pitching, in big moments of high pressure situations. Nothing against those young ladies (I have coached several and wish every one of them success) but I would think the reality of it is the numbers go way down, hence creating an even higher run probability for the strategic bunt vs. the "big inning".

I am also far from a stats expert but I can almost guarantee that the "big inning" and batting averages diminish significantly against elite pitching. Maybe VO can get us some numbers based on that criteria. I may actually be shocked and learn something new, but then again what is considered "elite" pitching becomes somewhat subjective. LOL

Come on man! If some on here does not have something to gripe and whine about they would not know what to do with their lives......or lack there of!

[TurfToe]

Come on man! If some on here does not have something to gripe and whine about they would not know what to do with their lives......or lack there of!

You don't think the bunt diarrhea complaints are legit?

[ridinsuicide]

So we should use batting averages as a reason not to bunt but we rather not use the averages of scoring runs when using the bunt in same discussion?

Got it


As always, I enjoy reading everyone's posts on here regarding the Cajuns' softball team. Regardless of my opinions its always great reads to be honest. Even topics that I read over and have VERY strong opinions on (I always keep those to myself, lol) but I do enjoy giving my completely useless opinion on certain topics. Gives me an opportunity to learn, as I am always open minded.

And some lessons are that there is no reasoning with some. LOL

[raginrevival]

You don't think the bunt diarrhea complaints are legit?

What I think is I do not know, but I do know the ones complaining on here is on a forum and not coaching at the college level which tells me they should have one been hired if they know so much or two they just like to complain. SOME not all of the ones that complain will make you think UL has the greatest team ever when they win a game and the same folks will make you believe this is a terrible team/coach when they lose. I look at it like this is her second season, the team is much improved from last year thus far, the kids seem to love the coaches, we will never be what we were unless the complainers pony up $$$$ to get the needed players in here for that or retain those players, and instead of just enjoying the little thing they complain still living in the 2000's which was a different time and game.

[TurfToe]

Not coaching is the dumbest argument to make a point. If there are coaches out there doing it differently then fans are free of the not coaching cut down. Some opinions are based on fact. ps notice I have no opinion besides those shutting down opinion

[MarlinMan3]

Isnt it more important to consider power hitter vs non power hitter, than batting averages?