Dr. Savoie Retiring

[Cajunrunner]

No one is impressed with a degree from 'Bama, nor any of the SEC teams other than Vandy; but everyone is impressed with a degree from Harvard. Or the University of Chicago.

In the real world, engineering degrees from UT-Austin, A&M and OU are very well respected, as is ChemE at Auburn and LSU. The CEO of some of the largest energy companies in the country, even the world, have engineering degrees from SEC schools not named “Vandy”.

In fact, short of any scholarships to reduce costs, I’d say a kid in that field should look into A&M and Austin before forking over nearly 70k/year in tuition alone to attend “Vandy”. Waste of money, or their parents’ money, when there’s much less expensive options available that’ll get you just as far in the real world.

[cajun55]

Anecdotal, but… I know MANY friends whose kids choose to go to LaState for nursing or engineering or accounting, but yet UL is stronger in all three of those departments and more. They go to Baton Rouge because they’ve been a fan of their athletics since they were born. MY kids and grandkids didn’t consider any other university than UL because they’ve been fans of THIS athletics department since THEY were born.

This

[SlickRick]

SMD, sorry to call you out.

But when I ask which is more important, academics or athletics, too many people pull out the "and/both" argument. "You can have both."

First, IMHO, that answer is a cop-out. It's a substitute for a thoughtful response, and it avoids the obvious: academics should always come first.

Second, you can have both, but you can only have one of them all the time. Athletics are short-term success, and highly inconsistent, no one is always a perennial powerhouse. Which is understandable: athletes stay for 4-5 years, coaches often don't last much longer. On the other hand, academics are long-lived, and create an overlap: great faculty and research attract yet more great faculty, students, and research. Alabama dominates in football only some of the time, and many schools that once dominated are gone from the landscape.

Princeton, on the other hand, has remained one of the nation's powerhouses in mathematics and physics for well over a century.

Third, you don't need both. No one is impressed with a degree from 'Bama, nor any of the SEC teams other than Vandy; but everyone is impressed with a degree from Harvard. Or the University of Chicago. Or any of the 'smaller' U Cal schools (in any given year, 4 or 5 UC System schools will be ranked in the top 25 for public universities).

Fourth, as I pointed out to Turbine, we have a chance to change the state's priorities, and students' expectations and goals. If we do that, we also change the state, and make it better for everyone. Face it, this model of 'The Football Team Impersonating a University (While also Claiming to be a Flagship)' has failed Louisiana, and all of education. Miserably.

Fifth, as I also pointed out, NIL and the portal are intellectually bankrupting higher ed. What are we, who are we, when our teams comprise players who might be here for one year; then go somewhere else next year; are making more than our faculty, our president, and the governor; and who aren't going to class, because you really can't make them?

We are supposed to be a University. We are supposed to be a place of objective, independent thinking. And we are supposed to attract students, and produce alumni who also think objectively.

And yet, here are the 'best' public universities from across the nation, rushing to burn down academics to have sports, and please rich, vulgar boosters.

And almost no one is questioning it. We are rushing after the 'leaders' like lemmings.

As I have said before:

If everyone is thinking the same way...

...who's thinking?

That Harvard degree is not as impressive anymore. They are trying to redesign the market and have fallen on their asses.

[Cajunrunner]

That Harvard degree is not as impressive anymore. They are trying to redesign the market and have fallen on their asses.

Bingo.

[MarlinMan3]

In the real world, engineering degrees from UT-Austin, A&M and OU are very well respected, as is ChemE at Auburn and LSU. The CEO of some of the largest energy companies in the country, even the world, have engineering degrees from SEC schools not named “Vandy”.

In fact, short of any scholarships to reduce costs, I’d say a kid in that field should look into A&M and Austin before forking over nearly 70k/year in tuition alone to attend “Vandy”. Waste of money, or their parents’ money, when there’s much less expensive options available that’ll get you just as far in the real world.

But OU and Austin are only just joining the SEC now, they and even aTm earned those reputations before SEC. Has aTm continued to improve?? Their overall US and World Repirt rankings say no, not sure about engineering, will OU and Austin do better, we will have to wait and see

[ULvictory]

That Harvard degree is not as impressive anymore. They are trying to redesign the market and have fallen on their asses.

They sha sha students a lot more than they used to.

[ManAboutTown]

SMD, sorry to call you out.

But when I ask which is more important, academics or athletics, too many people pull out the "and/both" argument. "You can have both."

First, IMHO, that answer is a cop-out. It's a substitute for a thoughtful response, and it avoids the obvious: academics should always come first.

Second, you can have both, but you can only have one of them all the time. Athletics are short-term success, and highly inconsistent, no one is always a perennial powerhouse. Which is understandable: athletes stay for 4-5 years, coaches often don't last much longer. On the other hand, academics are long-lived, and create an overlap: great faculty and research attract yet more great faculty, students, and research. Alabama dominates in football only some of the time, and many schools that once dominated are gone from the landscape.

Princeton, on the other hand, has remained one of the nation's powerhouses in mathematics and physics for well over a century.

Third, you don't need both. No one is impressed with a degree from 'Bama, nor any of the SEC teams other than Vandy; but everyone is impressed with a degree from Harvard. Or the University of Chicago. Or any of the 'smaller' U Cal schools (in any given year, 4 or 5 UC System schools will be ranked in the top 25 for public universities).

Fourth, as I pointed out to Turbine, we have a chance to change the state's priorities, and students' expectations and goals. If we do that, we also change the state, and make it better for everyone. Face it, this model of 'The Football Team Impersonating a University (While also Claiming to be a Flagship)' has failed Louisiana, and all of education. Miserably.

Fifth, as I also pointed out, NIL and the portal are intellectually bankrupting higher ed. What are we, who are we, when our teams comprise players who might be here for one year; then go somewhere else next year; are making more than our faculty, our president, and the governor; and who aren't going to class, because you really can't make them?

We are supposed to be a University. We are supposed to be a place of objective, independent thinking. And we are supposed to attract students, and produce alumni who also think objectively.

And yet, here are the 'best' public universities from across the nation, rushing to burn down academics to have sports, and please rich, vulgar boosters.

And almost no one is questioning it. We are rushing after the 'leaders' like lemmings.

As I have said before:

If everyone is thinking the same way...

...who's thinking?

Wal-Mart, McDonald’s, Apple, Exxon. The most recognizable brands in the world. They maintain a robust, ever-present marketing strategy to this day. Why? Because they understand staying at the forefront of each generation is the only way to stay relevant for decades.

Athletics is the marketing department for every University participating in sport. It is easily, provably, demonstrably sustainable and profoundly profitable way to market your university to current and future “customers.”

While I agree with 99% of the sentiment here, it is foolish to think we should not be funding our athletics programs to the best of our abilities. Should it be to our detriment? Of course not.

[MarlinMan3]

Probably having the dorms closer to the stadiums would have been better in the long run for student involvement. The big p4s i think for the most part dont have separate academic and athletic campuses. Although some may have more contiguous distance students need to traverse than we have

[ULvictory]

Probably having the dorms closer to the stadiums would have been better in the long run for student involvement. The big p4s i think for the most part dont have separate academic and athletic campuses. Although some may have more contiguous distance students need to traverse than we have

Most P4's have their athletic facilities on campus. I know that we recently connected our athletic and academic sides of campus with the purchase of the old Lourdes hospital. Hopefully, that can create some ideas on bridging that gap that you're talking about.

[CajunFun]

I left out Texas and Texas A&M good point. (OU, meh.)

However they are not respectable degrees because of their football teams, are they?