HC/Plane Crash at Reagan National Airport

[HelmutVII]

Both followed instructions, the Blackhawk crew messed up.

I have 2000.2 hours in a UH60M, my former unit just left there 4 months ago. It’s an incredibly busy airspace to operate in.

I refuse to lay blame on political hot button topics because it’s not about politics at this point.

I could list hundreds of contributing factors, but it won’t change the fact that 70ish people have died in a midair.

Aviation is one of the most unforgiving industries out there. A critical mistake in a critical phase of flight will result in a fatal accident the majority of the time.

I have friends who know that 60 crew pretty well and it’s unfortunate.

Thanks for the insight. I find it hard to believe the powers that be thought that this arrangement was a good idea. Choppers at max 200 feet flying under a glideslope to a busy airport like DCA. It's a wonder that this hasn't happened sooner. I wonder why the chopper went to 400 ft. I would hope the chopper had both CVR and FDR.

[CrazyCajun]

Both followed instructions, the Blackhawk crew messed up.

I have 2000.2 hours in a UH60M, my former unit just left there 4 months ago. It’s an incredibly busy airspace to operate in.

I refuse to lay blame on political hot button topics because it’s not about politics at this point.

I could list hundreds of contributing factors, but it won’t change the fact that 70ish people have died in a midair.

Aviation is one of the most unforgiving industries out there. A critical mistake in a critical phase of flight will result in a fatal accident the majority of the time.

I have friends who know that 60 crew pretty well and it’s unfortunate.

I saw a report the pilot had 500 total flight hours. What experience level is that considered in the industry? And particularly for flying in that situation/air space?

[cajun4life]

I saw a report the pilot had 500 total flight hours. What experience level is that considered in the industry? And particularly for flying in that situation/air space?

Total cockpit time was around 1400 hours. Army pilots are required to fly 96 hours per year to maintain currency. Many struggle to meet that requirement due to budget issues and contract maintenance.

A 1000 hour pilot on the army side would be considered high time.

That would be a normal total if flight time in an army cockpit.

[Big Tyme]

Both followed instructions, the Blackhawk crew messed up.

I have 2000.2 hours in a UH60M, my former unit just left there 4 months ago. It’s an incredibly busy airspace to operate in.

I refuse to lay blame on political hot button topics because it’s not about politics at this point.

I could list hundreds of contributing factors, but it won’t change the fact that 70ish people have died in a midair.

Aviation is one of the most unforgiving industries out there. A critical mistake in a critical phase of flight will result in a fatal accident the majority of the time.

I have friends who know that 60 crew pretty well and it’s unfortunate.

Great insight. Thanks

[HelmutVII]

Total cockpit time was around 1400 hours. Army pilots are required to fly 96 hours per year to maintain currency. Many struggle to meet that requirement due to budget issues and contract maintenance.

A 1000 hour pilot on the army side would be considered high time.

That would be a normal total if flight time in an army cockpit.

According to this Pilot had about 1000 hrs co pilot about 500 hrs

https://www.foxnews.com/us/dc-plane-...ter-identified

[Big Tyme]

Thanks for the insight. I find it hard to believe the powers that be thought that this arrangement was a good idea. Choppers at max 200 feet flying under a glideslope to a busy airport like DCA. It's a wonder that this hasn't happened sooner. I wonder why the chopper went to 400 ft. I would hope the chopper had both CVR and FDR.

That is a good question. I understand that when the chopper took responsibility for visually tracking the traffic, it was on them but why would a flight path take an aircraft across a final approach? Would the final approach altitude be the same every time? Why would they not put the crossing traffic at a much higher altitude? Would not seem like 200 feet of vertical separation is not nearly enough.

[Cajunrunner]

Both followed instructions, the Blackhawk crew messed up.

I have 2000.2 hours in a UH60M, my former unit just left there 4 months ago. It’s an incredibly busy airspace to operate in.

I refuse to lay blame on political hot button topics because it’s not about politics at this point.

I could list hundreds of contributing factors, but it won’t change the fact that 70ish people have died in a midair.

Aviation is one of the most unforgiving industries out there. A critical mistake in a critical phase of flight will result in a fatal accident the majority of the time.

I have friends who know that 60 crew pretty well and it’s unfortunate.

Thanks for the insight. Completely agree that political blaming (that is happening) from either side, less than 24 hours after this tragedy, is embarrassing and trashy.

I'm already a nervous AF flyer, and seeing this story when I woke up in Albuquerque was about the last thing I needed to see before having to get on a jet later in the day to head back to Houston!

Complete tragedy for all involved and their families.

[CrazyCajun]

Total cockpit time was around 1400 hours. Army pilots are required to fly 96 hours per year to maintain currency. Many struggle to meet that requirement due to budget issues and contract maintenance.

A 1000 hour pilot on the army side would be considered high time.

That would be a normal total if flight time in an army cockpit.

I got you, thanks for the info.

[AirBill]

I definitely have thoughts...

First of all, though I'm no friend of the current administration, this isn't something I'd lay at their feet. I've flown into this airport since 2003, and I've never thought that setup was particularly safe. In the most ideal of situations, this has a southbound helicopter at 200' crossing the path of a northbound jet at 300'. No matter what your definition of 'safe' is, this ain't it.

I've done this particular circling approach to runway 33L countless times. Haven't done it with my current company, but I did it all the time with my old company. When you realize you're transiting Route 1 — a major helicopter airway through the DCA terminal area — you really don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Truth is, it's always felt like an accident waiting to happen. A lot of people are pointing to the UH60 being out of position, but they weren't that far off. They called the CRJ in sight and were cleared to maintain visual separation. But their track after they said that strongly suggests they weren't looking at the CRJ at all.

Sadly, I fully expect the NTSB to lay the blame on the PAT25 crew, when it's the setup that's to blame here.

[cajun4life]

I definitely have thoughts...

First of all, though I'm no friend of the current administration, this isn't something I'd lay at their feet. I've flown into this airport since 2003, and I've never thought that setup was particularly safe. In the most ideal of situations, this has a southbound helicopter at 200' crossing the path of a northbound jet at 300'. No matter what your definition of 'safe' is, this ain't it.

I've done this particular circling approach to runway 33L countless times. Haven't done it with my current company, but I did it all the time with my old company. When you realize you're transiting Route 1 — a major helicopter airway through the DCA terminal area — you really don't get a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Truth is, it's always felt like an accident waiting to happen. A lot of people are pointing to the UH60 being out of position, but they weren't that far off. They called the CRJ in sight and were cleared to maintain visual separation. But their track after they said that strongly suggests they weren't looking at the CRJ at all.

Sadly, I fully expect the NTSB to lay the blame on the PAT25 crew, when it's the setup that's to blame here.

You are 100% correct. PAT25 is to blame, and I’m a former Blackhawk driver.

https://youtu.be/hfgllf1L9_4

As far as blaming this administration, that a stretch. Blaming the last 4 administrations and how they have shown a complete disregard for the importance of fully funding all aspects of aviation operations is much more accurate.

My opinion on DCA, it should’ve been closed to commercial traffic in 2011 for many reasons.

ATC is vastly overworked and understaffed. But they are not to blame on this one.

[AirBill]

You are 100% correct. PAT25 is to blame, and I’m a former Blackhawk driver.

https://youtu.be/hfgllf1L9_4

As far as blaming this administration, that a stretch. Blaming the last 4 administrations and how they have shown a complete disregard for the importance of fully funding all aspects of aviation operations is much more accurate.

My opinion on DCA, it should’ve been closed to commercial traffic in 2011 for many reasons.

ATC is vastly overworked and understaffed. But they are not to blame on this one.

The question of why PAT25 climbed 200 feet right before the crash will be an interesting one. There are a lot of reasons why it could've happened, but I'd prefer to wait for the NTSB report than speculate. What I will say (and I'm sure you'd agree) is it's really easy to mistake one airplane for another, particularly at night, which makes visual separation in that environment a dicey proposition.

Like I said, I don't blame the current administration for this. Far too early in it to say they had anything to do with it. ATC isn't to blame either (and neither is DEI, for that matter). Yes, the FAA is badly understaffed and underfunded, but since Congress is given the power of the purse in the Constitution, that's who I blame. Then again, this administration started off by wanting to shrink government, so it's not likely this was going to change.

Bottom line, the convenience of DCA is something that both Democrats and Republicans have enjoyed for as long as it's been there. This isn't (or shouldn't be) about politics at all.

[Swamp]

Anybody know anything about this flight out of Philly? Enormous explosion on ground.