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Thread: Regional Placements

  1. UL Baseball Regional Placements

    Recently I have seen a lot of chatter regarding the slotting of teams in regionals based on the theoretical 1/32, 2/31, 3/30, etc.. I wanted to highlight some caution with that sort of analysis. There are a number of factors that determine how regional teams are placed. Geography is a major one ... as is balance. But balance does not mean the above (1/32, 2/31, etc.). It is about achieving as much balance as possible in the entire four team regional. But at the same time, geography is an important consideration ... and there are other less important criteria that are also considered. Note that I am not including the hard rule regarding teams from the same conference not being eligible for the same regional (except in cases where this rule is waived). I am only referring to the subjective criteria.

    The most optimal situation for the committee is when balance and geography work well together ... while also affording the committee the ability to reward a high national seed with a very winnable region (or the converse). But these never fully align and you see examples of this every year. It is also important not to look at the placements in a vacuum (why did this team get shipped out there). The puzzle is often significantly more complicated than it seems (I have assembled many of these selections over the years). Here are some examples from the 2023 selections with RPI ranking at selection time used as a proxy. Yes, RPI ranking is not exactly indicative of the evaluation ranking of the involved teams. But it is easily close enough to use as a good proxy, especially when also considering the other selection criteria as a confirmation. 2023 is just an example of what I have seen many many times over the years.

    --

    Indiana State was the #14 national seed in 2023. The Sycamores were paired with a #32 RPI Iowa as a #2 seed. Iowa was a low #2 seed. Their resume also included a third place finish in the Big Ten. Meanwhile, the committee attempted to introduce some balance by slotting #27 RPI North Carolina as the #3 seed (The Tar Heels were considered to be a high #3/low #2). For the #4 seed, the second highest RPI ranked #4 seed (Wright State) was placed in the Indiana State regional with a #77 RPI ranking. The top RPI ranking for a #4 seed was #76 Oral Roberts (made it to the CWS, where they defeated TCU). So, you can see where it was not the case that Indiana State was saddled with a strong #2 seed ... quite the opposite. But Iowa made sense from a geographic standpoint (bus trip). To make this work, the committee then attempted to achieve balance by sending tough #3 and #4 seeds. It also worked out well (and was part of the consideration) that Wright State was also a bus trip.

    Another example is #4 national seed Clemson. The committee sent #20 RPI Tennessee to Clemson ... where they won the Clemson regional, won the Hattiesburg super regional, and went to the CWS (eliminating Stanford). Tennessee was a high #2 seed, yet was sent to Clemson as it made geographical sense as well as resulted in a better overall set of selections. The #3 seed (#67 Charlotte) was arguably the weakest #3 seed (focus on balance). Lipscomb was not what I would consider a weak #4 seed, but having Lipscomb in this regional allowed for all four teams taking the bus (a true regional).

    #11 national seed Oklahoma State (#17 RPI ranking) was paired with a #2 seed that was on the bubble to host (#16 Dallas Baptist). This was done for geographical reasons. I do think that this was the most unbalanced regional (and toughest for a national seed to advance), but you can see what they were doing and why. I would have made a different selection for a #3 seed (#36 Washington) and #76 Oral Roberts was no favor (they won the regional, as mentioned above). But this also underscores the importance of geography even more.

    There are other examples, but I will close with one more. #22 RPI Connecticut was slotted as the #2 regional seed in the #2 national seed Florida regional. Connecticut was not a low #2 seed. Connecticut had to fly somewhere ... and this was more dictated by the slotting of other teams in #2 seed slots and balancing the regionals. Low #4 seed #153 Florida A&M was able to bus and was accordingly sent to Gainesville for some balance.

    Now, all of this does not mean that you do not have pairings that are high #1/low #2 and vice versa. #1 Wake Forest/#35 Maryland and #2 Arkansas/#33 TCU ... as well as #15 South Carolina/#13 Campbell and #16 Alabama/#18 Boston College are examples. But the point is that this is nowhere near the rule and that there are many other considerations. And you can see where geography also plays a role in three of those four above pairings.

    Brian


  2. Default Re: Regional Placements

    Good stuff.

    Thanks


  3. #3

    Default Re: Regional Placements

    Thanks Brian!


  4. #4

    Default Re: Regional Placements

    Brian is the MAN!


  5. #5

    Default Re: Regional Placements

    33 ole miss(losing record)
    34 northeastern(0-2)
    35 coastal(conf finish)
    36 west virgina(0-2)
    37 Louisiana(0-2 won belt)

    I think our resume is ahead of these teams in front of us for the reasons in parentheses(0-2 being tournament record) which would slot us at 33. Add in florida at 30 who will almost certainly be a 3 seed if they get in and that puts us at 32. So we are right at that 2-3 seed line IMO. Also I don’t see any teams behind us with any better of a resume.

    Also like Brian stated. Usm is at 26 with a win today they could get in the top 25 and move our Q1 from 6-6 to 8-7 which would really help our cause.

    Geaux Cajuns and go USM today.


  6. Default Re: Regional Placements

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob81 View Post
    33 ole miss(losing record)
    34 northeastern(0-2)
    35 coastal(conf finish)
    36 west virgina(0-2)
    37 Louisiana(0-2 won belt)

    I think our resume is ahead of these teams in front of us for the reasons in parentheses(0-2 being tournament record) which would slot us at 33. Add in florida at 30 who will almost certainly be a 3 seed if they get in and that puts us at 32. So we are right at that 2-3 seed line IMO. Also I don’t see any teams behind us with any better of a resume.

    Also like Brian stated. Usm is at 26 with a win today they could get in the top 25 and move our Q1 from 6-6 to 8-7 which would really help our cause.

    Geaux Cajuns and go USM today.
    Lots of respect for USMs programs but hard to cheer for them at times. Some of that fan base is insufferable.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Regional Placements

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tyme View Post
    Lots of respect for USMs programs but hard to cheer for them at times. Some of that fan base is insufferable.
    They are so similar to us, just with a longer history of success in most sports.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Regional Placements

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Tyme View Post
    Lots of respect for USMs programs but hard to cheer for them at times. Some of that fan base is insufferable.
    Other than not having a College of Engineering (2 SEC schools won’t allow it), USM has a lot of similarities to us. Whenever I have gone there, I have been treated well by their fans. Social media is not real life. Also, my niece who is the daughter of my late brother, just earned a computer science degree from there. She honored her Dad that way who was a NASA employee. Therefore I generally pull for the Eagles.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Regional Placements

    Quote Originally Posted by Cajunsmike View Post
    Other than not having a College of Engineering (2 SEC schools won’t allow it), USM has a lot of similarities to us. Whenever I have gone there, I have been treated well by their fans. Social media is not real life. Also, my niece who is the daughter of my late brother, just earned a computer science degree from there. She honored her Dad that way who was a NASA employee. Therefore I generally pull for the Eagles.
    similar my daughter and her fiance graduated from USM, while i don't love Hattiesburg, I do like the school and they got good educations there, also he is ga for the athletic department so talking sun belt sports with him is always fun

  10. #10

    Default Re: Regional Placements

    Athens, Georgia – Georgia (39-15)
    Chapel Hill, North Carolina – North Carolina (42-13)
    Charlottesville, Virginia – Virginia (41-15)
    Clemson, South Carolina – Clemson (41-14)
    Bryan-College Station, Texas – Texas A&M (44-13)
    Corvallis, Oregon – Oregon State (42-14)
    Fayetteville, Arkansas – Arkansas (43-14)
    Greenville, North Carolina – East Carolina (43-15)
    Knoxville, Tennessee – Tennessee (50-11)
    Lexington, Kentucky – Kentucky (40-14)
    Norman, Oklahoma – Oklahoma (37-19)
    Raleigh, North Carolina – NC State (33-20)
    Santa Barbara, California – UC Santa Barbara (42-12)
    Stillwater, Oklahoma – Oklahoma State (40-17)
    Tallahassee, Florida – Florida State (42-15)
    Tucson, Arizona – Arizona (36-21)


  11. #11

    Default Re: Regional Placements

    ECU with an RPI in the 20s and didnt win their tournament…in the #12 RPI conference is a bit of a surprise. But it helps to have a committee member.

    Arizona hosting with a 31 RPI and 3-9 vs Q1 is also of note. But won their reg season and tourney. Kinda makes you think the Cajuns had a shot had they won theirs, although the west coast teams get a pass at times.


  12. Default Re: Regional Placements

    Quote Originally Posted by sportsfanatic21 View Post
    ECU with an RPI in the 20s and didnt win their tournament…in the #12 RPI conference is a bit of a surprise. But it helps to have a committee member.

    Arizona hosting with a 31 RPI and 3-9 vs Q1 is also of note. But won their reg season and tourney. Kinda makes you think the Cajuns had a shot had they won theirs, although the west coast teams get a pass at times.
    The RPI does actually disenfranchise the west coast and Arizona is actually a good team … certainly a bubble national seed. I would still have had them as a #2 seed, but I am ok with this. I like having three regionals out west.

    ECU on the other hand, did not deserve a national seed in my opinion. I thought Duke earned it.

    I am glad that they saw through the Indiana State RPI inflation. They do not have a national seed resume.

    What all of this says is that they still very much value conference regular season champions (at least of the higher ranked conferences). It will be interesting to see whether this carries through to the #10 RPI conference and College of Charleston is awarded a bid.

    Brian

  13. Default Re: Regional Placements

    Quote Originally Posted by sportsfanatic21 View Post
    ECU with an RPI in the 20s and didnt win their tournament…in the #12 RPI conference is a bit of a surprise. But it helps to have a committee member.

    Arizona hosting with a 31 RPI and 3-9 vs Q1 is also of note. But won their reg season and tourney. Kinda makes you think the Cajuns had a shot had they won theirs, although the west coast teams get a pass at times.
    That’s why Deggs was talking about hosting we win our tournament makes you wonder do we get that spot from ECU or Arizona. Man that is disappointing hosting was a legitimate shot

  14. #14

    Default Re: Regional Placements

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisianaB View Post
    6. Athens, Georgia – Georgia (39-15)
    4. Chapel Hill, North Carolina – North Carolina (42-13)
    12. Charlottesville, Virginia – Virginia (41-15)
    7. Clemson, South Carolina – Clemson (41-14)
    2. Bryan-College Station, Texas – Texas A&M (44-13)
    18. Corvallis, Oregon – Oregon State (42-14)
    5. Fayetteville, Arkansas – Arkansas (43-14)
    22. Greenville, North Carolina – East Carolina (43-15)
    1. Knoxville, Tennessee – Tennessee (50-11)
    3. Lexington, Kentucky – Kentucky (40-14)
    14. Norman, Oklahoma – Oklahoma (37-19)
    15. Raleigh, North Carolina – NC State (33-20)
    13. Santa Barbara, California – UC Santa Barbara (42-12)
    11. Stillwater, Oklahoma – Oklahoma State (40-17)
    8. Tallahassee, Florida – Florida State (42-15)
    31. Tucson, Arizona – Arizona (36-21)
    Just for fun, I decided to put the selection rpi next to these hosts. I find it interesting that Duke and Dallas Baptist, by winning their conference championship today, passed up Oregon State, who was at #16 yesterday.

  15. Default Re: Regional Placements

    Quote Originally Posted by sportsfanatic21 View Post
    ECU with an RPI in the 20s and didnt win their tournament…in the #12 RPI conference is a bit of a surprise. But it helps to have a committee member.

    Arizona hosting with a 31 RPI and 3-9 vs Q1 is also of note. But won their reg season and tourney. Kinda makes you think the Cajuns had a shot had they won theirs, although the west coast teams get a pass at times.
    Checks notes: committe members have to leave room when their school is discussed. See also scott farmer leading the committee, were we helped?

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