Honest Question about 3rd/4th and 2 or Less to Go

[GeauxCajuns]

outside of a qb sneak, which i would have no problem with, has anyone timed the difference between a snap under center, turning and taking two to three steps back to hand it off to the rb, vs a shotgun snap and give it to him right there? i havent taken the time to do it, wondering if anyone else has.

[Turbine]

outside of a qb sneak, which i would have no problem with, has anyone timed the difference between a snap under center, turning and taking two to three steps back to hand it off to the rb, vs a shotgun snap and give it to him right there? i havent taken the time to do it, wondering if anyone else has.

Id like to see that number as well. Include QB sneek time in there.

A tenth of a second could be the diference between scoring, winning, and going home, disapointed.

ps Originally the under center question was brought up to fix all the low snaps

[Big Poppa]

outside of a qb sneak, which i would have no problem with, has anyone timed the difference between a snap under center, turning and taking two to three steps back to hand it off to the rb, vs a shotgun snap and give it to him right there? i havent taken the time to do it, wondering if anyone else has.

Where the biggest difference is that under center the running back is firing off forward and has momentum going forward when the ball is received. If he is next to the QB in the gun he is at a dead stop when the ball is received then takes off.

[CajunVic]

Where the biggest difference is that under center the running back is firing off forward and has momentum going forward when the ball is received. If he is next to the QB in the gun he is at a dead stop when the ball is received then takes off.

. . . doesn't he take off from about the same spot and in one instance it is with the ball and the other it is without . . . help me here . . .

[R1Letterman]

The snap is different as well, maybe the centers don't have enough experience either

[GeauxCajuns]

Where the biggest difference is that under center the running back is firing off forward and has momentum going forward when the ball is received. If he is next to the QB in the gun he is at a dead stop when the ball is received then takes off.

he is still starting off from the same spot. if hes next to qb in shot gun or behind qb under center, he still starts from a still position the same distance behind the line of scrimmage.

[Turbine]

Where the biggest difference is that under center the running back is firing off forward and has momentum going forward when the ball is received. If he is next to the QB in the gun he is at a dead stop when the ball is received then takes off.

RB can move forward at the first hike ball movement.

Shotgun delivery creates an ever so slight delay on RB moving forward as it requires ball flight delivery to QB... hand adjustment of ball... turn around... stuff the gut... RB begins momentum.

Under center hike should allow RB momentum, perfect hand placement, simultaneous step turn, and stuff into gut of the oncoming RB freight train.

[Turbine]

The snap is different as well, maybe the centers don't have enough experience either

Valid unknown

[Big Poppa]

he is still starting off from the same spot. if hes next to qb in shot gun or behind qb under center, he still starts from a still position the same distance behind the line of scrimmage.

Correct he does start from the same spot. But timing to hit the line of scrimmage is slowed by the shotgun snap. Under center your firing off at the snap of the ball. Shotgun your standing flat footed at the snap of the ball waiting for the snap. If shotgun was the best option in that situation the professionals would do it. They all get under center.

[R1Letterman]

Could rb not stand further back than qb in pistol?

[SlickRick]

Okay...just so happened I questioned CBN about this after his second year with us. I was at the Suit-em-up get together just before the season started at the French Press. He got around to dropping by our table and I asked him why he didn't have any plays under center, especially considering we had a couple of big backs that could hit the hole much quicker on short yardage downs. He started going on and on about zone blocking and RPO plays that keep the OL from getting downfield etc. etc. when I put my hand up and stopped him. I asked him if he thought Sean Payton was a top offensive mind/play caller. He said, yes he is pretty good. I then said, well if I had to guess, Drew Brees is under center 20% of the time, so why aren't more colleges doing that. At that point in the conversation, my wife told Billy she liked his haircut, which is the same as mine, just he has a full head of hair. He pointed at my head and we had good laugh.

But, the end of the story goes like this. A couple of games into the season, Billy had LL under center on the goaline for a play or two with a score. The very next home game during the Cajun walk, I waved at Billy and he immediately got down like he was playing QB under center. It was definitely cool to see for me.

Short yardage plays are tough due to the number of players the D puts in the box. The hole may be open only a split second and handing off to the RB direct from under the center gets him to the hole quicker than from the gun. With a FB leading the way, you can apply max pressure at the point of attack quicker as well, or simply hand off the to FB...which from my playing days was quick as s h i t. You had to be really quick to get the ball out from under center to make a safe hand off because the FB was on you in split second.

Regarding getting the snap from under center safely, if they don't practice it live, you are taking a big risk that snap will be fumbled. So, I can see why so many teams don't do it if they don't use it often enough to do it safely.

We never ran the gun with Coach Zeno, in fact I'm not sure if any college teams ran the gun way back in the 70's. I often wondered what that would have been like. All of our pass plays except for a couple were timed based on a 7 step drop. We always set up between the guard and tackle, left or right side depending on which side we were throwing to. We did have a couple of 3 step drops for slants patterns, but that put you close to the LOS and easier for D lineman to swat it down. Being in the gun would benefit the QB there as he would get the ball already at his set-up depth. One thing I liked about taking the snap under center is you always had vision on the defensive backs as you dropped back. Coach Zeno's offense gave us some easy reads against zone defenses and we always audibled out when they went to man coverage. Of course, that didn't happen to often back in the stone age. LOL!

[Turbine]

Could rb not stand further back than qb in pistol?

RB cant move forward till the hike and the qb won't or even can't hand off till he has control of the ball.

You need a secure hike for two moving players to successfully execute a hand off.

Shotgun has a stationary RB, QB gives him the ball when he is ready.

Both (either or) can and do work but a moving RB and a QB grasping for control simultaneously is, a recipe for disaster.