Candidates the Cajuns should consider for MBB coach

[SlappyCajun]

_ Again you are pulling out the best players from Louisiana over a vast period of time. Yes louisiana produces "some" very talented players. But louisiana does not produce enough talented players to supply UL with consitent winning. Again you are assuming that UL would only have to compete with LSU for recruits. _

Thats not what I am saying.I also indicated that we would have to compete with Tech.

I don't really feel like we have to compete with the other guys. Maybe ULM.

The bottom line and all I'm trying to get you to admit, is that Louisiana is not a crap state in basketball. Why do you think the talent is so bad

I cannot understand that.

[cajun4life]

Since 2003 according to Scout.com Louisiana has produced 5 five star prospects, 10 four star prospects and 20 three star prospects. Out of all of those prospects can you guess how many were signed by UL? I'll tell you 3 Courtney Wallace, LaRyan Gary and Chris Gradnigo.

You can throw out 5 star prospects because they are going to go to your elite programs or LSU. So that brings us to the team we have now, all three players are on this years squad, while I know Wallace has been injured and so has LaRyan Gary it just goes to show that your theory of an all Louisiana team is not winning. Also it shows that UL will never be able to pick and choose from the elite, superior to decent Louisiana talent.

5 Star: Brandon Bass(LSU), Glenn Davis(LSU), Tasmin Mitchell(LSU), Lacedarius Dunn(Baylor) and Greg Monroe(Georgetown)

4 Star: Shan Foster(Vandy), Kenneth Cooper(Ok St.), Terry Martin(Texas Tech), Demond Carter(Baylor), Perry Stevenson(Kentucky), Jeremy Jacob(Prop), Malcom White(Prop), Terrence Henry(Ole Miss), Matt Derenbecker(LSU), Markel Brown(Ok St.).

That is yur 15 elite prospects from Louisiana since 2003. Do you think we are able to sign 3 of these guys a year? The answer is no, we haven't hell we have not signed more thn 3 of the 20 3 star prospets from Louisiana.

[SlappyCajun]

_ Thanks for the call.

No, I don't think Louisiana is a "crap" state for basketball. Not by a long shot. But I also don't think you can get it done just in Louisiana.

We're proving that right now.

In order to win with Louisiana talent, we have to win some battles that we've lost in the past. If we recruit against LSU for really good Louisiana players (and I'm only using them as an example) we'll lose most of those battles. But if we can WIN a few (and we've done it in the past) then you're onto something.

You won't win the Sun Belt and win in the NCAA tournament (with Louisiana players) if you can't win recruiting battles for BCS type talent within the state.

If you look at the past, we've won some of those battles. Kevin Brooks, Chris Manuel and Kelvin Price were all coveted by LSU. We had some other players that LSU would have wanted had they qualified academically.

But we haven't won any of those battles in quite a few years. That has to change if you want to win with in state guys.

Jessie had a good run, but look back at the players he had. You can name the major contributors from Louisiana who qualified as freshmen on one hand.

And I don't think you'll need all five fingers to do it. _

Jay -

I think this is probably highlighting what I am trying to say. I've never said I want a roster full of Louisiana kids. Even though, I may feel more strongly than most about the success you could have with them.

I think this argument started because it was orginially implied that a coach with recruiting connections wasn't important because Louisiana was a crap state in basketball.

I remember as you do, times when we would recruit and get out of high school some of the best players in the state of Louisiana. We also had some very good teams at those times.

I think it is a perfect storm for that right now as well. Because, Trent Johnson is not really a guy who is a lock down recruiter in Louisiana. So, if we get someone who can really compete for BCS talent, then we have a shot to really do something special.

[SlappyCajun]

_ Since 2003 according to Scout.com Louisiana has produced 5 five star prospects, 10 four star prospects and 20 three star prospects. Out of all of those prospects can you guess how many were signed by UL? I'll tell you 3 Courtney Wallace, LaRyan Gary and Chris Gradnigo.

You can throw out 5 star prospects because they are going to go to your elite programs or LSU. So that brings us to the team we have now, all three players are on this years squad, while I know Wallace has been injured and so has LaRyan Gary it just goes to show that your theory of an all Louisiana team is not winning. Also it shows that UL will never be able to pick and choose from the elite, superior to decent Louisiana talent.

5 Star: Brandon Bass, Glenn Davis, Tasmin Mitchell, Lacedarius Dunn and Greg Monroe

4 Star: Shan Foster, Kenneth Cooper, Terry Martin, Demond Carter, Perry Stevenson, Jeremy Jacob, Malcom White, Terrence Henry, Matt Derenbecker, Markel Brown.

That is yur 15 elite prospects from Louisiana since 2003. Do you think we are able to sign 3 of these guys a year? The answer is no, we haven't hell we have not signed more thn 3 of the 20 3 star prospets from Louisiana. _

Dude You are simply not understanding what I am arguing. I have never argued for an All-Louisiana roster.

You dismissed the fact that it is important to have a coach that has ties in Louisiana. Then you said Louisiana is a crap basketball state, in your own words.

Let me break down my points. And then address them one by one.

1) I am not an advocate for an all-Louisiana roster. I simply said that there are 3 players in this state every year that can help this program win consistently.

2) Do you believe that Louisiana is a crap basketball state, and it is not important for a coach to have recruiting ties in this state as you previoulsy stated.

3) If we cannot get elite level prospects from our state. Where do you supposed we get them from????

4) What does it take to win consistently? What type of players do you have to get? And where do you propose that we get them from?

5) Take your star system and shove it. Tyren Johson didn't have any stars, and he is the best player in the Sunbelt.

[cajun4life]

_ Thats not what I am saying.I also indicated that we would have to compete with Tech.

I don't really feel like we have to compete with the other guys. Maybe ULM.

The bottom line and all I'm trying to get you to admit, is that Louisiana is not a crap state in basketball. Why do you think the talent is so bad

I cannot understand that. _

Ok "crap" is a strong word, but my point remains the same. We can not win with stricktly Louisiana players. You like to point to the best years we have had with core guys from Louisiana. But that is few and far between, we can not do it consistantly.

[SlappyCajun]

Ok. Something we can agree on. I will agree that we cannot win with strictly LA players. But if we can revert to the days, as Jay mentioned where we did get BCS talent from LA then our options in LA become very good.

igeaux.mobi

[cajun4life]

_ Ok. Something we can agree on. I will agree that we cannot win with strictly LA players. But if we can revert to the days, as Jay mentioned where we did get BCS talent from LA then our options in LA become very good.

igeaux.mobi _

The basketball landscape has changed in Louisiana. We are no longer thought of as a great place to play basketball like we were during the Fletcher/Evans era. Coach Lee has really hurt the value of Cajuns basketball. Lee has done a great job of getting guys to go to class and stay on track to graduate, but we are not an Ivy League school. I want kids to go to class and graduate, but I want to win more.

I do agree with you that we need to recruit Houston and Dallas a lot harder. But we have had success landing great players from all over not just Louisiana and Texas. Guys like Tyrone Foster, Marcus Allen, Barry Bowman, Anthony Johnson and others all chose to come to UL. We have great facilities and HAD a great atmosphere it was easier for us to draw kids in but we have to change the Culture that has set in since Lee has taken over.

[MetryCajun]

_ Dude You are simply not understanding what I am arguing. I have never argued for an All-Louisiana roster.

You dismissed the fact that it is important to have a coach that has ties in Louisiana. Then you said Louisiana is a crap basketball state, in your own words.

Let me break down my points. And then address them one by one.

1) I am not an advocate for an all-Louisiana roster. I simply said that there are 3 players in this state every year that can help this program win consistently.

2) Do you believe that Louisiana is a crap basketball state, and it is not important for a coach to have recruiting ties in this state as you previoulsy stated.

3) If we cannot get elite level prospects from our state. Where do you supposed we get them from????

4) What does it take to win consistently? What type of players do you have to get? And where do you propose that we get them from?

5) Take your star system and shove it. Tyren Johson didn't have any stars, and he is the best player in the Sunbelt. _

I think Louisiana ties for a coach should be a minor qualification. If you are a solid coach with a track record of success, you will be able to get kids. Lee has tons of Louisiana ties and has lost most of the contested recruiting battles in-state. What is important is not where the kids grow up, but what kind of program do we have to offer. Right now we are about nothing. Are we an up-tempo team? Are we a half court sets team? Do we like to play pressure defense or zone? Do we have a finesse or physical style of play? The answer is we are a rudderless ship. That is why we suck.

The next coach will have to chart a direction for the program and sell that to recruits. Being for LA or getting kids from LA will have very little to do with his ultimate success.

[MetryCajun]

_ The basketball landscape has changed in Louisiana. We are no longer thought of as a great place to play basketball like we were during the Fletcher/Evans era. Coach Lee has really hurt the value of Cajuns basketball. Lee has done a great job of getting guys to go to class and stay on track to graduate, but we are not an Ivy League school. I want kids to go to class and graduate, but I want to win more.

I do agree with you that we need to recruit Houston and Dallas a lot harder. But we have had success landing great players from all over not just Louisiana and Texas. Guys like Tyrone Foster, Marcus Allen, Barry Bowman, Anthony Johnson and others all chose to come to UL. We have great facilities and HAD a great atmosphere it was easier for us to draw kids in but we have to change the Culture that has set in since Lee has taken over. _

Michael Allen came to us by way of Kentucky. He saw our style of play and decided that was the type of offense he wanted to play for. What are the chances of that happening now?.ZERO.

[Turbine]

1) I am not an advocate for an all-Louisiana roster. I simply said that there are 3 players in this state every year that can help this program win consistently.

It seems to me if you recruit just "one" great player a year, you will always (on average) have 4 great players on the team.

[HoustonCajun]

_ I think Louisiana ties for a coach should be a minor qualification. If you are a solid coach with a track record of success, you will be able to get kids. Lee has tons of Louisiana ties and has lost most of the contested recruiting battles in-state. What is important is not where the kids grow up, but what kind of program do we have to offer. Right now we are about nothing. Are we an up-tempo team? Are we a half court sets team? Do we like to play pressure defense or zone? Do we have a finesse or physical style of play? The answer is we are a rudderless ship. That is why we suck.

The next coach will have to chart a direction for the program and sell that to recruits. Being for LA or getting kids from LA will have very little to do with his ultimate success. _

It would appear that Louisiana es for a coach or anyone at the university is pretty critical given our current coaches and administrators. A huge percentage of our coaches are either UL alumni or alumni of state colleges in Louisiana including our President and AD. A lot of our football coaching staff are UL grads. Many of our head coaches and staff are UL grads. I wonder if any other university has as many of its alums in such key positions.

I don't know if that is good or bad. I do know, UL athletics has been horrible for a long time and equating the two is not difficult to do. Do we need to go outside to bring in better coaches or keep it in the family with a better grade of coach?

[CajunRed]

_ It would appear that Louisiana es for a coach or anyone at the university is pretty critical given our current coaches and administrators. A huge percentage of our coaches are either UL alumni or alumni of state colleges in Louisiana including our President and AD. A lot of our football coaching staff are UL grads. Many of our head coaches and staff are UL grads. I wonder if any other university has as many of its alums in such key positions.

I don't know if that is good or bad. I do know, UL athletics has been horrible for a long time and equating the two is not difficult to do. Do we need to go outside to bring in better coaches or keep it in the family with a better grade of coach? _

When you say UL athletics have been horrible for a long time, exactly what do you mean?

Our baseball team is coached by someone from Louisiana. It is horrible? Our softball team is coached by an alum. Is it horrible? Until Coach Lee took over, our basketball team was surely respectable.

Explain.

[headragincajun]

_ It seems to me if you recruit just "one" great player a year, you will always (on average) have 4 great players on the team. _

Turbine:
Add this to your formula. "Never more than 4 and never less than 2 in any 1 recruiting class. Always have 2 in every class contributing." Stack that up over a 4 or 5 year period and see where it leads. I tried it with my 1st Div.1 headcoaching job and it worked. Didn't get to finish it with my 2nd Div.1 head coaching job.

Moral of the story. You will never lose the ranch and you will always be stable and in the thick of your conference race (hench, 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 1st). It will work if you will stick with the plan.

But what do I know ? That's just my opinion. Good Luck Down there, SPECIAL PLACE IN OUR HEARTS. HATE TO SEE THE GOOD GUYS STRUGGLE.

Headragincajun

[zephyr]

_ You can say that Bobby may not be a good hire, but to say that Louisiana is a crap basketball state is about the most ridiculous thing ever

If you can recruit LA and Houston, you can win the Sunbelt every year


Dwayne Mitchell - Louisiana
Brad Boyd - Louisiana
Tyren Johnson - Louisiana
Laurie Bridges - Louisiana
Antoine Landry - Louisiana
All of LSU's Final Four Team - Louisiana
Greg Monroe - First Round Draft pick and Georgetown's best player, Louisiana
Baylor's Starting Backcourt (Tweety Carter and LaceDarius Dunn) - Louisiana
Marcus Thornton - Hornets starting two guard (Louisiana went to JUCO, because no one thought he was good enough to prop)
Millsap Brothers - Louisiana
Brandon Mouton - (Started on Texas Final Four team - LA)
Karl Malone - Louisiana
Willis Reed - Louisiana
All of Bobby Knights best players at Texas Tech - LA
Perry Stevenson at Kentucky
Carrol Boudreaux, Kevin Brooks, Aaron Mitchell, Eric Mouton
Kevin Figaro, Graylin Warner
Von Wafer (Rockets)
David Benoit
Robert Pack

LA is full of really really good college basketball players. I will argue this all day long. _

First of all, your point was not necessarily clear to begin with. First, you pull this list of players that spans 30 years and then go on to say that this program would "win the SBC every year if you can recruit Houston and LA". However to support your argument, you are using Willis Reed as an example? Come on. This state has had some great players come out of it but to suggest that it annually produces high quality, program building talent is FALSE. Even the players currently playing in college were spread out over several years and no offense, but players like Monroe, Tasmin Mitchell, Cooper etcwere never really going to come here. Even when the cajuns were a very consistent program, we were not a target for the high tier players, especially post players who are coveted by all major BCS programs. If you have to hinge your programs on the hopes of maybe 2-3 state prospects per year, you're in trouble. I understand and agree with what C4Life was saying and I also understand your point. However, you have very few recruits that come out in the state yearly in relation to the number of universities trying to land them outside of the blue chip players who will go to larger programs anyhow.

[HoustonCajun]

_ When you say UL athletics have been horrible for a long time, exactly what do you mean?

Our baseball team is coached by someone from Louisiana. It is horrible? Our softball team is coached by an alum. Is it horrible? Until Coach Lee took over, our basketball team was surely respectable.

Explain. _

I am thinking of basketball, track & field, soccer, volleyball and tennis as not being good. Horrible may have been an exaggeration, but not for some sports. Some are improving but have a ways to go. Softball is the one exception as it has been excellent for a long time. Baseball was excellent and is now average. Women's basketball became excellent with an NCAA birth, but has since dropped in the toilet, as has men's basketball. Men's Basketball was respectable before Lee took over. Both men's and women's basketball post Death Penalty were respectable with coaches from outside of Louisiana. Both Lee and Rogers are from Louisiana and Rogers is a UL alum. Football was horrible with a head coach from Louisiana and is now elevated to average and improving with a head coach from outside of Louisiana. Several of the assistant coaches are either UL alums or other Louisiana colleges.

I am posing a question, not forming a conclusion. Some Louisiana coaches have excelled while others have not. That is not a blanket statement, just relevant to certain sports. From Dr. S to Blanco to Walker and everyone in between, it was all UL people with little to no outside influence. And, that extended to many of our coaches and now our new President. Does UL have a disproportionate number of alumni in coaching and executive management positions relative to other universities? We have done business the same way for decades now and look where that has gotten us, at least under Dr. S. Does the possible lack of outside influence, i.e. people from BCS programs who bring new ideas and ways of operating at a higher level, hinder us at all? I am just posing the questions for discussion. Feel free to voice your opinion.