Jay Hedgemen suspended

[RaginDave]

Little off base but related. Good indication of SOME AAU parents and sports parents in general. Met a gentleman a few years ago, had just been laid off and was experiencing tough times. Was trying to be compassionate and supportive (yes Monkee, that was me). Then he comes out with this gem...

"Oh, we'll be ok, my son is going to be drafted into the NBA. He's going to make lots of money and take care of us."

So, naively I asked him what college did his son play for?

"Oh he doesn't play college ball". Not knowing of anyone in our area that was high school to NBA ready, yeah I went there, asked him what high school he played for.

"Oh he doesn't play high school ball. He plays for Acadian Middle. He gets to play where the Pelicans practice, he's that good."

Ok....high jack over.

There was an element in local AAU ball that for the longest time told kids to shoot for Refineryville, not anywhere else. That was a battle even Lee had to fight.

ZZ, I am not sure what you are trying to say here, but my son will not play NBA ball, and has very little chance of playing college ball, he is a very good JV/HS basketball player and probably could play NAIA if he wanted or possibly at best D3 basketball, so I in no way have any illusions of grandeur.

I was just asking what those that disliked Marlin thought his shortcomings were based on being around the team at practices/games.

I used my background as a coach, just to say that I have some basketball knowledge, but I was in no way comparing my kid to any D1 player or myself as anything but a guy who has coached basketball at some level for the better part of 20 years at the lowest possible level.

[ZoomZoom]

ZZ, I am not sure what you are trying to say here, but my son will not play NBA ball, and has very little chance of playing college ball, he is a very good JV/HS basketball player and probably could play NAIA if he wanted or possibly at best D3 basketball, so I in no way have any illusions of grandeur.

I was just asking what those that disliked Marlin thought his shortcomings were based on being around the team at practices/games.

I used my background as a coach, just to say that I have some basketball knowledge, but I was in no way comparing my kid to any D1 player or myself as anything but a guy who has coached basketball at some level for the better part of 20 years at the lowest possible level.

We're on the same page, figured you've seen folks like that and may have enjoyed a chuckle. It took everything in me to keep my mouth shut. Someone had brought up about players being coddled since 4th grade, and that was kind of part of the post. Trying to get the combativeness out this thread. What is done is done.

I was exposed to the second coming of Ronoldo and Mia. Different sport, same illusions.

[RaginDave]

We're on the same page, figured you've seen folks like that and may have enjoyed a chuckle. It took everything in me to keep my mouth shut. Someone had brought up about players being coddled since 4th grade, and that was kind of part of the post.

I was exposed to the second coming of Ronoldo and Mia. Different sport, same disillusions.

Oh absolutely. My son plays for a charter school here and they are doing well and I am friends with a number of the parents, some kids much better than others. But we have 2 parents of a couple of kids on the team that believe that their kid will be playing for UNC or Duke in 3-4 years. and the reality is they will be lucky to be playing for Catawba Community College. And don't even get me started on AAU ball. Everyone of those kids and parents think they will be playing somewhere in the ACC.

I had a funny conversation with my son they other day. (A UL fan also a big Duke fan, he is) He plans on going to UL if he doesn't get into Duke. So I stated to him:

Braeden you are a good basketball player, but not Duke good
Braeden you are a good stundent in HS, but not Duke smart
Braeden your dad makes good money, but not Duke money

Moral of the story.........he will be going to UL.

[fanof71]

So here is my question for those that are closer to the program than me. I will preface this by saying that I have coached AAU and Rec basketball for the better part of 20 years. My son currently starts on his JV High School team as a freshman in North Carolina and also has played 3 seasons of AAU ball. So while I am not an expert, I feel that I am extremely knowledgeable about playing and coaching basketball.

I am a fan of Marlin's, do I always like the results, no, but overall we are definitely a better than average basketball team and based on coming off of the Lee years, we could definitely have done worse as a hire.

So my question is this for those of you that are not Marlin fans:

Is it in game coaching or coaching in general that is Marlin's biggest issue. Being around coaching allot the last 20 years, there is a huge difference. Reason I ask, is you can take a guy like Roy Williams at UNC, he is one of the best recruiters in the country and a very good coach at getting teams ready to play (but personally I think he is a terrible in game coach, meaning he blows close games because he is outcoached during the game and does not think quick enough on his feet about rotations, defenses, etc.

My son is playing on a team that has the same issue right now. I have been at a majority of his practices and games. He is fantastic in working plays, defenses and motivating kids, but his in game decisions are questionable. That being said they are 18-5 this year, so he is doing something right. But of the 5 games he has lost he was severely outcoached in the second half of ball games. The opposing coaches made in game changes and we could not overcome those changes. He gets stuck playing zone when teams are killing us from 3 point land or we are going against a team with one superb player and fails to switch to the box and 1 or to man to man with our best defender on that player.

I just want someone's opinion if Marlin gets outcoached during the game or is it a lack of preperation?

Love the take on Roy...all you have to do is look at the last half of the Duke game to figure that he's not a great bench coach...

Dave asked a good questions, and all I'm hearing is crickets...Marlin did the right thing. Now, if we're talking about making free throws on the road, beech away.

[RaginDave]

Love the take on Roy...all you have to do is look at the last half of the Duke game to figure that he's not a great bench coach...

Dave asked a good questions, and all I'm hearing is crickets...Marlin did the right thing. Now, if we're talking about making free throws on the road, beech away.

Based on talent and ability, Roy should have 5 National Championships, he has 2, but reality is the first was with Matt Doherty's kids.

[Cajunsmike]

I never said he should have no penalty, so you're wrong there. Marlin always, ALWAYS has issues with the players HE recruits. Maybe his HMFIC attitude is the problem. And yes he does strike me as a guy that is always "right". Coincidence that many kids that have come through this program leave without respect for him? Idk. As long as they do what he says, keep their mouths shut and always put the "team" first, they're fine, right?

Like I've said, this is bigger than Jay.

But I'm glad you've learned "all you need to know"

There are some players who have left here with a bad taste in their mouth. Probably too many in fact. Although several of those who left later on realized they made a mistake. On the other hand there are several players who leave here with great respect for Coach Marlin. In Coach's early years here that included guys like Travis Bureau, LaRyan Gary, and Josh Smith. In recent years that includes guys like Elfrid Payton and Bryant Mbamalu. The staff helped Mbamalu acquire an overseas opportunity where he is playing now. On the current squad, guys like Kasey Shepherd and Steven Wronkowski greatly respect their coaches. Like everything else in life, there is good and bad in this situation.

[VObserver]

Love the take on Roy...all you have to do is look at the last half of the Duke game to figure that he's not a great bench coach...

Dave asked a good questions, and all I'm hearing is crickets...Marlin did the right thing. Now, if we're talking about making free throws on the road, beech away.

I am not a cricket. But I will answer the question. Marlin's biggest problem is the absolute lack of ability to judge talent at the guard position, particularly at the 2 guard. I believe that his recruitment of EP was completely blind luck, but I will give him credit for recruiting him, and not call Marlin out for inability to recruit 1 guards. That being said, there are no competent guards at either 1 or 2 on the team this year.

I also question his game preparation, as we very often seem lost in the first 10 minutes of games; which would seem to indicate that we were unprepared for what the other team is doing.

Our offense has too much dribbling, not enough passing, not enough appropriate movement away from the ball, and is in general very static. I have asked several hoops coaches what kind of offense it is, and none of them have been able to identify it beyond "schoolyard".

As to in game coaching: see the last 3 minutes of the last couple of games.

What he CAN do is coach defense and get effort out of his players. Both of those are very good things, but if your guys are limited in their skill set [and except for Long and Washington, ours are], you have to be able to run an offense [see UALR] that gives them chances to get easy buckets.

[Cajunsmike]

So here is my question for those that are closer to the program than me. I will preface this by saying that I have coached AAU and Rec basketball for the better part of 20 years. My son currently starts on his JV High School team as a freshman in North Carolina and also has played 3 seasons of AAU ball. So while I am not an expert, I feel that I am extremely knowledgeable about playing and coaching basketball.

I am a fan of Marlin's, do I always like the results, no, but overall we are definitely a better than average basketball team and based on coming off of the Lee years, we could definitely have done worse as a hire.

So my question is this for those of you that are not Marlin fans:

Is it in game coaching or coaching in general that is Marlin's biggest issue. Being around coaching allot the last 20 years, there is a huge difference. Reason I ask, is you can take a guy like Roy Williams at UNC, he is one of the best recruiters in the country and a very good coach at getting teams ready to play (but personally I think he is a terrible in game coach, meaning he blows close games because he is outcoached during the game and does not think quick enough on his feet about rotations, defenses, etc.

My son is playing on a team that has the same issue right now. I have been at a majority of his practices and games. He is fantastic in working plays, defenses and motivating kids, but his in game decisions are questionable. That being said they are 18-5 this year, so he is doing something right. But of the 5 games he has lost he was severely outcoached in the second half of ball games. The opposing coaches made in game changes and we could not overcome those changes. He gets stuck playing zone when teams are killing us from 3 point land or we are going against a team with one superb player and fails to switch to the box and 1 or to man to man with our best defender on that player.

I just want someone's opinion if Marlin gets outcoached during the game or is it a lack of preperation?

In my opinion, the major shortcoming of this staff is on the recruiting end. Yes there are some stars but they take too many guys that are SLC level they believe they can coach up to play at the top of this league. They were able to do that with Bryant Mbamalu who improved tremendously. In his four years here he became a player I never thought he could be. Natural leader and great student as well. Guys like Wronkowski and Shepherd have also improved but not to the level needed to win a championship. Again, these two guys are fine young men who will be successful in life. Bryce Washington and Jonathon Stove are also of that mold. To win a championship though we need a more well rounded team. We have a few of these great guys and some athletic defensive guys. What we don't have are enough shooters who can hit shots at crunch time. Heyward Register is a tremendous practice shooter but the speed of the game seems to impact game performance. Our defensive guys are athletic but need more basketball skill. In summary, we need to bring in more talent to be a team that can win championships more consistently.

I do not believe the staff has issues with game preparation, motivation, or adjustments. An example of adjustments is the Little Rock game where the Trojans executed several plays in the first half to get layups as they were able to move Shawn Long away from the basket and there was no rim protector near the goal. In the second half of that game, the Trojans had very little of those due to adjustments the staff made at half. I won't argue they should have made that adjustment sooner. They lost that game because they shot 3 for 19 from the perimeter, mostly on open shots. They lost the UTA game because of missed free throws and that was a factor at Texas State. Those are all talent issues which goes back to recruiting.

[RaginDave]

In my opinion, the major shortcoming of this staff is on the recruiting end. Yes there are some stars but they take too many guys that are SLC level they believe they can coach up to play at the top of this league. They are able to do that with Bryant Mbamalu who improved tremendously. In his four years here he became a player I never thought he could be. Natural leader and great student as well. Guys like Wronkowski and Shepherd have also improved but not to the level needed to win a championship. Again, these two guys are fine young men who will be successful in life. Bryce Washington and Jonathon Stove are also of that mold. To win a championship though we need a more well rounded team. We have a few of these great guys and some athletic defensive guys. What we don't have are enough shooters who can hit shots at crunch time. Heyward Register is a tremendous practice shooter but the speed of the game seems to impact game performance. Our defensive guys are athletic but need more basketball skill. In summary, we need to bring in more talent to be a team that can win championships more consistently.

Fair Commentary. Thanks Mike.

[Boomer]

I think your comment about Marlin and players is off base.

His discipline methods in my opinion, have been spot on.

In retrospect, his biggest mistake was not running off Raymone Andrews sooner. If he had, J. J. Thomas may have ended his career at UL.

---Was not close but heard a certain coach was a real culprit in the story--If memory serves correctly he was forbidden to recruit---TRUE??

[CajunEXPRESS]

---Was not close but heard a certain coach was a real culprit in the story--If memory serves correctly he was forbidden to recruit---TRUE??

That coach hasn't been a problem anywhere else. Poor, poor Marlin. Gets too many problem players and backstabbing coaches.

Here's a non opinion. He's pretty mediocre in a weak league.

[VObserver]

In my opinion, the major shortcoming of this staff is on the recruiting end. Yes there are some stars but they take too many guys that are SLC level they believe they can coach up to play at the top of this league. They are able to do that with Bryant Mbamalu who improved tremendously. In his four years here he became a player I never thought he could be. Natural leader and great student as well. Guys like Wronkowski and Shepherd have also improved but not to the level needed to win a championship. Again, these two guys are fine young men who will be successful in life. Bryce Washington and Jonathon Stove are also of that mold. To win a championship though we need a more well rounded team. We have a few of these great guys and some athletic defensive guys. What we don't have are enough shooters who can hit shots at crunch time. Heyward Register is a tremendous practice shooter but the speed of the game seems to impact game performance. Our defensive guys are athletic but need more basketball skill. In summary, we need to bring in more talent to be a team that can win championships more consistently.

Mike, I like Jonathon Stove as a 3. He is offensively somewhat limited, but he recognizes his limitations and plays in ways to minimize those and maximize his strengths. Wronk is much the same; though different in style. I believe Washington is just better than both of those guys. Honestly, I have little problem with our 3's, except it would really be nice to have one like Duane Mitchell again.

We can win with guys like Wronk and Stove, as they do not HURT us. None of our 1's and 2's are as good at their position as Stove and Wronk are at the 3; and Washington and Long are considerably more talented than the rest of the team, in my opinion.

I would kill for guards that could run a simple pick and roll with Long or Washington.