Quarterback Club, Troy & ULM

[CajunFun]

Notes are up: http://ultoday.com/node/923

[wcd35]

Many thanks Doc! I really love reading hearing about the guys that we'll get to see in the near future. Really awesome to hear about Rob Walker breaking Fenroy's bench record.

[CajunFun]

_ Many thanks Doc! I really love reading hearing about the guys that we'll get to see in the near future. Really awesome to hear about Rob Walker breaking Fenroy's bench record. _

Thanks. One comment I made at the QBC was about how far UL has fallen behind athletically: ULM is supposed to be a rival, a school with less than half of our enrollment. I noted that last year UL had $50 million in extramural research funding.

ULM had $4 million.

In some academic areas, we are even ahead of USM & Memphis; we are certainly older than either of them, and we're larger than USM. We just haven't kept up athletically.

Now it emerges that the 'elite' of the conference, Troy, one of the smaller schools in the 'Belt, is open admissions. The Trojans (and ULM and ASU) also don't have to worry about the APR, so they can take a lot of players that no good university can.

So, are the Trojans (and ULM and ASU) good football teams because they're good universities?

Or precisely because they're not good universities?

There were a couple of reasons I used that picture of the little plane they drive around the field during Troy games for the QBC article. One is that the guy who drives it is pretty obnoxious; he doesn't just use it to motivate the Trojans (which is fine, I actually thought it was clever). It was that he deliberately parks it in front of the visiting fans whenever Troy scores, and salutes the Troy fans on either side of the visitors. He's pretty basse-classe. (However, I should also point out that I think it is equally basse-classe for the game announcer to lead cheers, which we now do at UL: "That's another UL... FIRST DOWN!")

But the other reason I used that picture was the rather strong metaphor: it's a toy. Troy University is really Toy University. It's a school built around a sports program. So is ULM, and hence Coach Charlie Wannabe.

BTW, here's a reprint of the comparisons between UL & ULM... it's a couple of years old (Carnegie has changed terminology), but it gives an idea. I wish I had time to look at all the 'Belt Schools.

University of Louisiana	UL Monroe
Founded 1898	Founded 1931
Enrollment 16,300	Enrollment 7,400
Lafayette: 114,000	Monroe: 54,000
Lafayette MSA: 512,000	Monroe MSA: 170,000
Div 1-A Charter Member (1982)	Div 1-A 1997
SREB Doctoral II	SREB Doctoral III
Carnegie Doctoral II	Carnegie Master’s I
USN&WR National U	USN&WR Master's/South
Four Active Research Parks	None
High Selective Admissions	Low Selective Admissions
Foundation $150 million	Foundation ??? $20 million 2004
Ann. Research Grants $50M	Ann. Research Grants $4M
9 Doctoral Programs	4 Doctoral Programs
PhD English/Creative Writing	PhD Pharmacy
PhD Mathematics	PhD Marriage & Family Therapy
PhD Computer Science	EdD Curriculum and Instruction
PhD Computer Engineering	EdD Educational Leadership
PhD Cognitive Sciences
PhD Environ. & Evol. Biology
PhD Francophone Studies
PhD Speech & Hearing Therapy
EdD Educational Leadership

But that's not the really embarrassing part. What's most embarrassing, to ULM, to the state of Louisiana, and to at least some people here in Lafayette, is that many people think that the 'real' University of Louisiana should be determined by a football game. For too many people, including ULM, but also Troy, and many other schools around the country, the concept of academic excellence is synonymous with a sports program.

[Parrott]

And Rob told me a few weeks ago that he's gotten bigger, stronger and faster in the past three months.

Many thanks Doc! I really love reading hearing about the guys that we'll get to see in the near future. Really awesome to hear about Rob Walker breaking Fenroy's bench record.

igeaux.mobi

[DrumRoll]

I am not sure everyone understands Troy's Military ties, role, and mission...there's a reason for the toy plane :-)

Troy's campus is a minimal part of the University's overall operation. Troy serves as a worldwide online educational resource for military personnel and dependents, with locations in:

Germany
Guam
Japan
Korea
Malaysia
Sri Lanka
Thailand
United Arab Emirates
Vietnam

In fact, Troy maintains offices at the following military bases:

Kadena Air Base
Misawa Air Base
Davis-Monthan AFB, AZ
Malmstrom AFB, MT
Holloman AFB, NM
Eglin AFB, FL
Hurlburt Field, FL
MacDill AFB, FL
Shaw AFB, SC
Langley AFB, VA
Pensacola NAS, FL
Whiting Field, FL
Little Creek, VA
Dam Neck, VA
NAS Norfolk, VA
NAS Oceana, VA
National Naval Medical Center, Bethesda, MD
Naval Medical Center, Portsmouth, VA
Fort Benning, GA
Yongsan Army Garrison
Fort Lewis
Fort Carson, CO
Fort Bragg, NC
Fort Campbell/Clarksville, TN
Fort Belvoir, VA
Fort Eustis, VA
Fort Monroe, VA
Fort Myer, VA
Fort Gordon, GA
Yongsan Education Center, Korea
HQ/A 510th PSB, Germany

[CajunFun]

_ I am not sure everyone understands Troy's Military ties, role, and mission...there's a reason for the toy plane :-)

Troy's campus is a minimal part of the University's overall operation. Troy serves as a worldwide online educational resource for military personnel and dependents, with locations in:
_

I'm aware of that. I took courses through Troy when I was in the Navy.

Did Troy do all of these things out of a sense of commitment to the US? Did they make a sacrifice to do all of these things?

Or did they get to someone in a position of authority years ago, and get a lock on this part of the industry?

Was this a sacrifice for Troy? Or was it a bonanza?

And what did Troy do with the resources from this exclusive contract? Remember... with this huge world-wide enrollment, Troy still has open admissions.

And they still can't match the APR.

[Just1More]

But that's not the really embarrassing part. What's most embarrassing, to ULM, to the state of Louisiana, and to at least some people here in Lafayette, is that many people think that the 'real' University of Louisiana should be determined by a football game. For too many people, including ULM, but also Troy, and many other schools around the country, the concept of academic excellence is synonymous with a sports program. _

This is absolutely true when it comes to publicly funded universities across the country. If football success historically attributes "greatness" to Michigan, Ohio State, Nebraska, Texas, etc in parts of the nation that otherwise would not know how to find those schools on a map... then you cannot blame any public university for accessing football success and borrowing this formula.

It is more appropriate to tag "embarrassment" to a school that has the attributes you mention, but fails to recognize the importance of football prowess, and capitalize on it. I enjoy and support UL athletics for more reasons than simply the entertainment. I fully expect to see us produce programs that match the "potential" and begin utilizing the benefits available from doing so. Our political capital as a public university has shrunk specifically due to an unimpressive athletic system.

"Academic Excellence" is not harmed, it is assisted, by "Athletic Excellence" in public universities. No public university is ever harmed academically by having excellent athletics. Just because some schools outpace academics with athletics does not mean we have the formula correct. You massively damage your political capital when fighting for academic pursuits by not having an excellent athletic system. Just because I do not like this fact does not make it go away.

Your point should emphasize that there are public universities that have much better athletics than they do academics, by your measure. We, on the other hand, have much better academics than athletics, by your measure. We do not control what these other universities do, but we do control ourselves. We will, without question, substantially assist our academic reality and perception once we establish excellent athletics.

Again, the only point you make that strikes me severely is that with our abilities academically, we are robbing our students and alumni of the "implied greatness" due to the fact we are too stubborn to have built an excellent athletic system to compliment our excellent academic system. This is not something to brag about. It is something to correct. It does not harm your brain to work out your body. The two compliment each other.

I completely understand and agree that Academics is by far... incredibly far... the finer quality to be measured by and focus on. However, we have got to stop basking in athletic mediocrity as if it's something to be proud of. It is like the 90 pound weakling standing on the roof top shouting that he's intellectually superior to everyone. It draws him nothing but the ire of his peers. He doesn't get credited for his scholastic success. He gets ignored.

Then, the day comes new textbooks are being issued, and he is physically too weak to claim one. He isn't granted a seat in any but one classroom... and thus begins the academic regression. Real smart one... that little 90 pound intellectual weakling.

[Just1More]

I really enjoyed reading Troy's comments. We've got a winner in Troy Wingerter.

The Rob Walker inference is an exciting development for our future.

[Just1More]

When you aren't in one of the NCAA's "resource limited" areas, it means that you are not considered "resource limited". That is more great news for UL.

New recruiting strategy: "You do know that they are designated by the NCAA as a "resource limited" area? That means the water doesn't get treated and farm animals are allowed to roam free. The number one employer in "resource limited" areas are paper mills. Everywhere you go, your clothes have a stench that you'll get used to in time... but the girls won't. Have you ever participated in a Cow Pie Throwing Contest? You may like it. Throw the dry ones. They go farther. Good luck on choosing your school."

[CajunFan89]

_ And Rob told me a few weeks ago that he's gotten bigger, stronger and faster in the past three months.




igeaux.mobi _

I work on campus and had Robert Walker come into the office i work in. he definitely looks like he is ready to go out and crack some skulls. told him i was looking forward to seeing him play next fall and he just kinda laughed

[DrumRoll]

_ I'm aware of that. I took courses through Troy when I was in the Navy.

Cool...

I was mentioning it for those that may not be aware.

My concern was that some might mistakenly think that Troy is a small school out in the middle of nowhere with extremely limited resources, when in fact they are far from it :-)

[CajunFun]

"Academic Excellence" is not harmed, it is assisted, by "Athletic Excellence" in public universities. No public university is ever harmed academically by having excellent athletics.

I really enjoy your posts... but on this one, there are so many things I want to offer counterpoints for, I don't know where to start.

So let me tell you about Neverland. Neverland has a lot of public universities, but only one of them gets any recognition.

Or any money.

That would be Neverland State. NSU has a great sports program. In any season, 1/3 of its programs will be ranked in the top 25.

But almost none of its academic programs are.

You are correct, their emphasis on athletics lets them get better state funding, and more donations.

But here's where I have a problem with your assertion that it never hurts: everyone in Neverland thinks that football defines the university.

No, they think that football defines everything.

So they approach education with a football mentality. They approach state funding with a football mentality. They approach economic development, and regional development, and every aspect of life, with a football mentality.

What is the football mentality in Neverland?

1) Win-lose. There is no win-win; I can only win if you lose.

2) Bragging rights trump all other concerns. So cheat if you can get away with it. Avoid honest competition, and any accountability at all, whenever you can.

3) Defense wins championships. If I can stop you, I don't need to move the ball. If I can stop you in any activity, I don't need to produce any progress.

4) I must always win. I have to win every contest, in every field, in every year. Anything less is a disaster.

So, Neverland State University uses its resources, not in leading Neverland, not in producing any value for anyone, but just to produce bragging rights.

There is no collaboration. To the contrary: defense wins championships, remember? So it doesn't matter how bad things are outside of the campus. It doesn't even matter how bad things are INSIDE the campus. Winning trumps all other concerns: as long as things are worse everywhere else, NSU wins.

And always, always, cheat if you can get away with it. Never accept responsibility for anything other than bragging rights, even if, say, education, and health care, and economic development are specifically part of your mandate for the state. Take the money you get for those things, use it only for yourself, and when those other things fail, claim it's not your responsibility.

I could keep going, but you get the picture.

But take it the next step: everyone in Neverland loves Neverland State, they love NSU football, so they practice the football mentality everywhere. Politics? Please, no cooperation. Right, wrong? Better, worse? Oh no, it's all about bragging rights. So everything falls apart with partisan politics.

Economic development? Oh no, you're not going to get any advantages on me. I'll do anything to keep you from advancing, including cutting off my nose to spite my face.

Cleaning up government? Who cares about that? There's no bragging rights in cleaning up government. So just ignore it. Who cares if Neverland spends more money than the other states but still gets an inferior product? Who cares if we end up losing tons of tax money-- in fact, more money than we would need to adequately fund education for everyone-- unless there are some bragging rights involved? Besides, we don't want to fund education for everyone. Remember?

Now J1M, you'll say that I took a simple statement, and ran wild with it.

I contend that across the nation, EVERYONE runs wild with the football mindset.

It's so pervasive, everyone of us have eaten so many lotus blossoms, that we can't even even see it anymore. Worse, we refuse to listen to anyone who says there's a problem. And so we all object vehemently when anyone points out-- as I have here-- just how dangerous this whole approach is.

I love sports. But it's a very, very dangerous thing. Sure it can help a school.

But I disagree with you , it can also hurt. You can spend your time, your money, and your resources going the wrong direction.

And it can hurt a lot more than just the people and the institutions selling their souls to win.