Usable UL names

[BrudaCajun]

I quit caring a long time ago. I have embraced us for who/what we are, which I might say is better than yours.

Join in on the "not caring" kick, it is pretty cool

[CajunCanaille]

_ I quit caring a long time ago. I have embraced us for who/what we are, which I might say is better than yours.

Join in on the "not caring" kick, it is pretty cool _

And who are we? Ask some and we are UL Lafayette or UL_L, ask others and we are UL or Louisiana. So which have you embraced?

As for the argument of the whole "flagship" of the system....IMO we are the flagship? We are just the better university in the system. We are better academicaly and for the most part better in overall athletics. I'm not positive, but I think we have made more post season appearances than any other school in the system. Combine the 2 and we are the better school in the system.

[HoustonCajun]

_ First off, I hope I don't get banned on my first post because I will admit y'all have a good board and have read for a while. Ok so if you want to really know what you can and can't call yourself.......here you go, read very carefuly!!!! and pay attention to sections III A., III B., III C., III D. (i'm not smart enough to figure out how to make bold)


I'm not going to post the whole law, but this is really all anyone needs to know.

My Opinion: The problem is that there really is no such thing as the University of Louisiana. There is the University of Louisiana System with several equal constituent campuses. Louisiana-Lafayette is not more entitled to adopt the name than Louisiana-Monroe, Northwestern, or indeed any other constituent school in the University of Louisiana System. It is not the flagship school within the system. Officially no institution can use UL or University of Louisiana. Louisiana-Lafayette wants to use the UL label because of perceived prestige and marketing, and presumably for leverage with the legislature in funding requests. Unfortunately for U-L-L, it doesn't have the legal right or authority to use UL or "Louisiana." With respect to other university systems, as in University of North Carolina, University of Alabama, University of Arkansas, etc., those schools known as the University of ____, like UNC, are generally the oldest and original campuses of those systems, like LSU is within the LSU system. They aren't analogous to Louisiana-Lafayette whose attempt to use "Louisiana" is a completely artificial effort in trying to mislead the people of Louisiana as well as people from surrounding states into believing they are something in fact they are not. They are not a natural outgrowth of the institution's history and identity. Northwestern, McNeese, Southeastern, UL-Monroe were not made into institutuions as part of Louisiana-Lafayette they were its own seperate institution created around the same time as U.L.L. UL-Lafayette wants everyone to believe that after a hundred years of being a Regional school barely bigger than Southeastern, not close to LSU, Mississippi, Miss. State, Ark in enrollment....now all of a sudden they are now a Flagship? The State of Louisiana says not so fast _

There is no reason to ban you from this forum and, frankly, I like the discussion. You certainly bring up excellent points and the law is clear. Except for one thing. The law requires a school using "UL" or "University of Louisiana" to include the city tag. Academically, our university uses the University of Louisiana at Lafayette on all things in full compliance with the law. Our teams sport the UL logo, but have Lafayette included somewhere on the cap, jersey, etc., but as inconspicuous as possible. To your university's credit, you have followed the law as well and your choice of "ULM" as your acronym is a great singular identity for you. ULM flows well like USM, UCF, & USF. But, UL L just doesn't flow the same way and is not liked by anyone. So, we don't use it and we ask others not to use it.

Also, keep in mind that the law applies to the university ONLY in referencing itself. The media, alumni and fans are under no such requirement. The local media in Lafayette has chosen to refer to us as UL, Louisiana and the University of Louisiana, which is their prerogative. It is also our (alumni) prerogative to call ourselves UL and Louisiana and wear gear with that on it. Likewise, in this year's Phil Steele's Football magazine, it is his prerogative to call us Louisiana, as is Kansas State's.

We have used Louisiana's Ragin Cajuns for quite a few years and that was grandfathered in the name change. That has also helped us in being referred to as Louisiana.

The law says nothing about use of "Louisiana" or "L" only, without the "U" or "University of". If we choose to exclusively use "Louisiana" or "L" athletically ONLY, we do not appear to be in violation of the law. The university has not officially adopted that position, but I have certainly encouraged them to do so.

Lastly, this name issue has caused quite a rift between us and ULM. If we are able to officially use Louisiana and L athletically and our university so chooses to do so, I liken that scenario to Nevada and UNLV and California and UCLA to Louisiana and ULM. Nevada Reno and Nevada Las Vegas co-existed for several years. Nevada Las Vegas adopted UNLV, hit the national stage in basketball, and had their identity established. Nevada Reno dropped the Reno, athletically only, and became Nevada. I might add that UNLV is actually in a better conference that Nevada despite the name difference. Cal Berkeley is also known athletically as simply Cal or California. California Los Angeles is known as UCLA, is in the same conference, and shares a similar academic standing with Cal, yet has no problem with the Cal vs. UCLA name reference. Likewise, ULM is making a name for itself with things like the big win over Alabama. You have a great identity, embrace it.

People here have fought the name change for over 30 years. We were named the University of Louisiana in 1984 and have an actual graduating class with that name on their diplomas before the court fight ensued which we were involved in for 16 years. We agreed to the name change in 2000 at which time ULM stepped in and agreed as well. Perhaps you can understand why we are so passionate about this. Nonetheless, the law is the law. We agreed to it and need to comply with it.

We as alumni push the limit on using UL and Louisiana because (1) we are so passionate about this given our 30 year struggle and (2) we are not obligated to follow the law, only the university. ULM alumni could do the same thing. However, you are now establishing yourself as ULM and that would only create more ambiguity for you.

We have been our own worse enemy in our name struggle. After 9 years of the name change, while you have an established identity as ULM, we are athletically known as Louisiana Lafayette, UL Lafayette, UL L, U LA LA, Louisiana's Ragin Cajuns, Louisiana and UL. Academically, we are the University of Louisiana at Lafayette and that will not change, nor are we trying to change it.

It is time for our university to decide on a singular athletic reference. Whether or not we can use "Louisiana" and "L" as an exception to the law is to be determined. That is only my opinion. It should have no impact on ULM. Like UNLV and UCLA, neither of which are impacted by Nevada or Cal, ULM is not impacted by our athletic use of Louisiana. It does not make us a flagship or a superior university, does not impact our state funding, and has no bearing other than an athletic reference to our school that we all want and have fought for all these years.

[ULwarhawksRULE]

I'm not saying that your school is not the second best school in this state (or that i do or don't care), or that ULM is or isn't better in any way. All I was doing is answering 1 of the 452 threads on why can't we call ourselves "UL" or "Louisiana" and why I think that it is silly to even try when you all know IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN, and you know that most of the schools in this system were created around the same time (and were certainly not a spin off of UL-Lafayette).

[Hammer58]

_ I'm not saying that your school is not the second best school in this state (or that i do or don't care), or that ULM is or isn't better in any way. All I was doing is answering 1 of the 452 threads on why can't we call ourselves "UL" or "Louisiana" and why I think that it is silly to even try when you all know IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN, and you know that most of the schools in this system were created around the same time (and were certainly not a spin off of UL-Lafayette). _

We've heard it all from you guys before. You claim not to care but yet here you are lecturing us on why we shouldn't use UL or Louisiana. In addition, you state that you wish your school would use it and you try to use it in a screen name to asociate it with your school. Somehow I bet if we were to give up our efforts which are succeeding more and more each day (witness Phil Steele's latest, the recent conference baseball tourney and all of your fans' emails to both of them complaining about it) and you guys would jump right in with your own efforts to claim it.

Sorry Baxter your feeble claims of "not caring" aren't convincing. Most be really slow in the Delta today.

[CajunCanaille]

_ I'm not saying that your school is not the second best school in this state (or that i do or don't care), or that ULM is or isn't better in any way. All I was doing is answering 1 of the 452 threads on why can't we call ourselves "UL" or "Louisiana" and why I think that it is silly to even try when you all know IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN, and you know that most of the schools in this system were created around the same time (and were certainly not a spin off of UL-Lafayette). _

Well for the most part we all know why we can't use the names we just don't agree with it. We will continue to fight until either our Athletic Dept. comes our and says we are officially UL Lafayette or we win the 30 year fight. ULM fans can get as mad as they want about us calling ourselves UL and Louisiana but the truth is that it isn't going to stop anytime soon.

We are LOUISIANA!

[HoustonCajun]

_ I'm not saying that your school is not the second best school in this state (or that i do or don't care), or that ULM is or isn't better in any way. All I was doing is answering 1 of the 452 threads on why can't we call ourselves "UL" or "Louisiana" and why I think that it is silly to even try when you all know IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN, and you know that most of the schools in this system were created around the same time (and were certainly not a spin off of UL-Lafayette). _

You bring up an interesting point about when schools were created. Could someone post the creation date of all Louisiana universities? UL was created in 1898 and, I think, opened its doors in 2000. But, we are inconsistent in using both dates in referring to that. Go figure.

I think Northwestern State is the oldest school in the UL System, even older than UL. LA Tech might be older than UL as well. ULM was not created until around 1935, if I am not mistaken, as was McNeese. I also think that UL was the first school in the UL System to be named a university with others following our lead in later years.

So, for comparative purposes, would someone have access to and be interested in providing information on each school within the UL System (1) the year created, (2) the year it became a university, (3) various name changes, (4) current enrollment, (5) current endowment, (6) current research dollars, and (7) current academic standing (Carnegie, Tier III, etc.)? While this has nothing to do with flagship status or anything relating to it within the UL System, it would be interesting to see which school is the actual leader in each category and overall leader within the UL System.

[ULwarhawksRULE]

"There is no reason to ban you from this forum and, frankly, I like the discussion. You certainly bring up excellent points and the law is clear."

Thanks! I really do understand the whole argument for both sides, but I will admit I am more for a U.L.L and ULM (for obvious reasons as looking as a lower level school) Well the reason I said that was because I was banned for about 2 weeks from a popular LSU site for posting that in response to a flamer.

"we are not obligated to follow the law, only the university"

It does clearly state Alumni associations, athletics, public relations. But we know they'll never enforce it (but if they wanted to boy that'd be tough i think its a $1000-$5000 fine per day for violation of this law until corrected or until 1 year to where they will cut athletic funding).

The use of the two-letter University of Louisiana abbreviation, “UL,” and/or the phrase “U of L” are prohibited by the university or any of its affiliated organizations (alumni associations, development foundations, bookstores, etc.). For academic, public relations, athletic, as well as other purposes not specified, the use of the University of Louisiana abbreviation must always include the abbreviation for the municipal location of the institution. For example, ULR is appropriate for University of Louisiana at Rayne.

[HoustonCajun]

_ "There is no reason to ban you from this forum and, frankly, I like the discussion. You certainly bring up excellent points and the law is clear."

Thanks! I really do understand the whole argument for both sides, but I will admit I am more for a U.L.L and ULM (for obvious reasons as looking as a lower level school) Well the reason I said that was because I was banned for about 2 weeks from a popular LSU site for posting that in response to a flamer.

"we are not obligated to follow the law, only the university"

It does clearly state Alumni associations, athletics, public relations. But we know they'll never enforce it (but if they wanted to boy that'd be tough i think its a $1000-$5000 fine per day for violation of this law until corrected or until 1 year to where they will cut athletic funding).

The use of the two-letter University of Louisiana abbreviation, “UL,” and/or the phrase “U of L” are prohibited by the university or any of its affiliated organizations (alumni associations, development foundations, bookstores, etc.). For academic, public relations, athletic, as well as other purposes not specified, the use of the University of Louisiana abbreviation must always include the abbreviation for the municipal location of the institution. For example, ULR is appropriate for University of Louisiana at Rayne. _

Yes, you are correct. But, where does it say that referring to ourselves athletically ONLY as Louisiana and using L, not University of Louisiana and not UL, is prohibited? And, where does it say that alumni, fans and media MUST refer to it using "at Lafayette"? It doesn't and that is my point.

[ULwarhawksRULE]

LSU 1860
Northwestern State 1884
LA Tech 1894
UL-Lafayette 1900
Southeastern LA 1925
UL-Monroe 1931
Mcneese State 1939
Nicholls State 1948

am i forgetting anyone of the top schools?

[ULwarhawksRULE]

Yes, you are correct. But, where does it say that referring to ourselves athletically ONLY as Louisiana and using L, not University of Louisiana and not UL, is prohibited? And, where does it say that alumni, fans and media MUST refer to it using "at Lafayette"? It doesn't and that is my point.

I guess it depends upon the interpretation of the law. the law says you can't use anything referring to yourself as a lead, main, or flagship. That pretty much wipes out everything that doesn't include some sort of regional tag. Now if you can change your name to LU and Louisiana University I don't see anyone being upset with that.

[HoustonCajun]

_ I guess it depends upon the interpretation of the law. the law says you can't use anything referring to yourself as a lead, main, or flagship. That pretty much wipes out everything that doesn't include some sort of regional tag. Now if you can change your name to LU and Louisiana University I don't see anyone being upset with that. _

Interestingly, that is also a suggestion I made. Like the University of Oklahoma - OU, University of Colorado - CU, University of Nebraska (Lincoln) - NU, University of Kansas - KU, we could refer to ourselves Athletically as LU which would solve that problem. But, changing to Louisiana University would likey require an official name change, thereby leaving ULM as the only remaining UL university in the UL System which requires 2 universities to be UL. But, what if Southeastern decides to become UL Hammond or Northwestern becomes UL Nachitoches (is that spelled right)?