Coaching evaluation outside of wins and losses

[HoustonCajun]

_ I'm going to take you up on this debate.

From a fan's perspective wins and losses are everything.

But if that's the main criterion, then you need to look no further than the mistakes made by Nebraska and, more recently, Auburn, in firing perfectly good coaches becauses they were not "successful enough".


I say that it is a factor, but not the main factor. This is because a mere win or loss is subject to vagaries which sometimes fall outside of the coaches' control. (I.E. does a healhty Desormeaux and Fenroy lose to UTEP?) How about an absurd buzzer beater?


Sometimes you only have the talent on hand to take you to .500. Is that the fault of coaching? Only if your talent is capable of .500 ball and you fall short. Is the coach making the most of what he is given?

No. I say you look at how the team has progressed in the season. Has it gelled? Has it improved over the course of the year? If it has, has it improved enough? Has the coach gotten ever ounce of talent out of the players and left it out on the court/field/etc.?

Regardless of the W/L if you answer any of those questions no, I think you need to look for another coach.

IF you answer those questions yes, most of the time, the W/L record will reflect that.

W/L is the ends, not the means, by which a coach should be evaluated.

And with that, I believe that in both mens and womens basketball, our coaches fail the test. _

A major difference in Nebraska and Auburn's coaches is that they were winning coaches who didn't win enough. In UL's case, we have losing coaches who didn't win enough. Lee was given a 2 year extension for having a mediocre season. He tied for the Western Division championship in a horrible league and lost the first game at home to a bottom place team. That was Walker's decision and a bad one it was. There was no reason to extend his contract after that loss at home and now it is coming back to haunt us. And, Walker is also the guy that hired Rogers, another horrible mistake. He could have maintained some consistency by hiring from a winning coaching staff, but instead went this route. These are AD blunders like the Baldwin hire. Another mistake was the track coach who quit in his first year. When will the AD be held accountable? It is time for new leadership in athletics and for Walker to finally retire and let Farmer take over. That is what he was hired for while Walker stayed through the university President transition. Well, that transition is complete. I hope that is made part of the RCAF announcement. BTW, a baseball win over LSU would have been a good springboard on which to announce the RCAF. Of course, timing has never been UL's forte. We continue to wait and wait and wait while they dot the i's and cross the t's. Are they learning a new language over there?

And speaking of the baseball win over LSU, we have now beaten LSU in baseball and softball and came within 2 points of a win in basketball. Now, we play them again in football this year. Instead of it being our first game of the year, we have two home games before the LSU game vs. Southern and Kansas State, so we will have some game experience under our belt before going into the lion's (er Tiger's) den. LSU plays Washington on the road and Vanderbilt at home before UL. I don't have any illusions about winning the game, but would really like to see us as competitive as we were in basketball or even as Troy was against them this past season. I do see that as a possibility as I think we will have a pretty salty football team this year. It is nice to see us become more competitive with them. It is hard to build a rivalry when one team wins all the time. I would love one day for the UL v. LSU rivalry to build to a point where it is an annual game and is LSU's biggest non-conference game each year. Although a seemingly natural rivalry, we certainly have a long way to go to approach that status.

[jllanclos]

_ I don't think that one bad season means a coach can't necessarily coach his team. I don't think it is as black and white as you make it look. It appeared coach Lee could coach in 04 when this team should have beaten Louisville in one of the more memorable games of the tourney. To that degree, it seems like he should have been given a nice extension with the season that team had but he wasn't. Why? Maybe he was evaluated closely after that season for criteria other than just wins and losses. I don't think many people were doubting his coaching abilities at that time with the season that took place. _

We have lost in the first round of the conference tournament for 3 straight seasons. When our conference gathers to play the tournament, our season has already ended. 3 years in a row. Even if we went to the sweet sixteen 4 years ago (Lee's first year with players recruited under Jessie Evans), 3 straight first round losses is absolutely intolerable. If I'm wrong and it is tolerable, then we're just pretending to want to be big time.

[rhineaux]

_ I don't think that one bad season means a coach can't necessarily coach his team. I don't think it is as black and white as you make it look. It appeared coach Lee could coach in 04 when this team should have beaten Louisville in one of the more memorable games of the tourney. To that degree, it seems like he should have been given a nice extension with the season that team had but he wasn't. Why? Maybe he was evaluated closely after that season for criteria other than just wins and losses. I don't think many people were doubting his coaching abilities at that time with the season that took place. _

I think these issues ARE pretty much black and white. Either the players are graduating or they're not. Either they're going to class or they're not. Either they're quitting the team or they're not. The issues are especially black and white when you consider both team's records, which is going back to Turbine's point. If your job has two duties, in this case winning games and graduating players, and you are doing half of it poorly, then what difference does it make what's happening on the other side?

[AstroCajun]

_ A major difference in Nebraska and Auburn's coaches is that they were winning coaches who didn't win enough. In UL's case, we have losing coaches who didn't win enough. Lee was given a 2 year extension for having a mediocre season. He tied for the Western Division championship in a horrible league and lost the first game at home to a bottom place team. That was Walker's decision and a bad one it was. There was no reason to extend his contract after that loss at home and now it is coming back to haunt us. And, Walker is also the guy that hired Rogers, another horrible mistake. He could have maintained some consistency by hiring from a winning coaching staff, but instead went this route. These are AD blunders like the Baldwin hire. Another mistake was the track coach who quit in his first year. When will the AD be held accountable? It is time for new leadership in athletics and for Walker to finally retire and let Farmer take over. That is what he was hired for while Walker stayed through the university President transition. Well, that transition is complete. I hope that is made part of the RCAF announcement. BTW, a baseball win over LSU would have been a good springboard on which to announce the RCAF. Of course, timing has never been UL's forte. We continue to wait and wait and wait while they dot the i's and cross the t's. Are they learning a new language over there?

And speaking of the baseball win over LSU, we have now beaten LSU in baseball and softball and came within 2 points of a win in basketball. Now, we play them again in football this year. Instead of it being our first game of the year, we have two home games before the LSU game vs. Southern and Kansas State, so we will have some game experience under our belt before going into the lion's (er Tiger's) den. LSU plays Washington on the road and Vanderbilt at home before UL. I don't have any illusions about winning the game, but would really like to see us as competitive as we were in basketball or even as Troy was against them this past season. I do see that as a possibility as I think we will have a pretty salty football team this year. It is nice to see us become more competitive with them. It is hard to build a rivalry when one team wins all the time. I would love one day for the UL v. LSU rivalry to build to a point where it is an annual game and is LSU's biggest non-conference game each year. Although a seemingly natural rivalry, we certainly have a long way to go to approach that status. _

New brooms sweep clean, IF you use them.

Don't mistake my point, I believe the basketball coaches have to go, but my reasoning goes far beyond mere wins and losses.

[jllanclos]

I'm willing to go beyond wins and losses.However, I'm only willing to go as far as Utah Valley St, and a 30 pt loss to these guys is indicative of the type of program we have. Now we have to choose whether that's acceptable or not, and I'm not willing to hear any excuses any more. Either we're going to talk about having a great athletic program, or we're going to make decisions that put us in a position to have a great athletic program. I'm tired of talking, dreaming, and being frustrated. I want bowl games, and I want NCAA tournament appearances. Anything less is failure. Period.

[HoustonCajun]

_ I'm willing to go beyond wins and losses.However, I'm only willing to go as far as Utah Valley St, and a 30 pt loss to these guys is indicative of the type of program we have. Now we have to choose whether that's acceptable or not, and I'm not willing to hear any excuses any more. Either we're going to talk about having a great athletic program, or we're going to make decisions that put us in a position to have a great athletic program. I'm tired of talking, dreaming, and being frustrated. I want bowl games, and I want NCAA tournament appearances. Anything less is failure. Period. _

That is exactly what we as alumni and fans need to impress on Dr. S and the AD. We are tired of mediocrity. It is now or never to change UL athletics. How this matter is handled will tell us everything we want to know about where UL athletics is heading. I would like to see the following:

1. Announcement that we are replacing BOTH Lee and Rogers, but will accept only Lee being replaced due to cost of both coaches ($175,000 - 1 year for Lee and $200,000 - 2 years for Rogers).
2. Announcement bringing on the RCAF. In addition to the RCAF, a statement about where UL is going in athletics, announcing a 5 year Plan about where we are, where we want to be and how we will get there, from funding to facilities and how the RCAF will help get us there.
3. Following announcement of all three of these, the transition will be complete, and an announcement that Walker is retiring and Farmer is the new AD needs to be made. Walker told me personally a few years ago that he only agreed to stay on because Dr. A asked him to and he was ready to retire. Surely, that time has come. He will have overseen the new IPF, the start-up of the RCAF, and a return to respectibility of our football program, all under his watch. He can retire feeling that he made significant contributions and helped UL initiate a move to a higher level. It is time for a new regime to take charge and actually take us to that new level. It is also time for Associate AD, Sherry Lebas, to retire as well. She has been in the UL athletic department for 34 years, is an Associate AD, and is in charge of Event Management. Event Management at UL is the most visible and poorest managed area in athletics.

[Cajunsmike]

A major difference in Nebraska and Auburn's coaches is that they were winning coaches who didn't win enough. In UL's case, we have losing coaches who didn't win enough. Lee was given a 2 year extension for having a mediocre season. He tied for the Western Division championship in a horrible league and lost the first game at home to a bottom place team. That was Walker's decision and a bad one it was. There was no reason to extend his contract after that loss at home and now it is coming back to haunt us. And, Walker is also the guy that hired Rogers, another horrible mistake. He could have maintained some consistency by hiring from a winning coaching staff, but instead went this route. These are AD blunders like the Baldwin hire. Another mistake was the track coach who quit in his first year. When will the AD be held accountable? It is time for new leadership in athletics and for Walker to finally retire and let Farmer take over. That is what he was hired for while Walker stayed through the university President transition. Well, that transition is complete. I hope that is made part of the RCAF announcement. BTW, a baseball win over LSU would have been a good springboard on which to announce the RCAF. Of course, timing has never been UL's forte. We continue to wait and wait and wait while they dot the i's and cross the t's. Are they learning a new language over there?

And speaking of the baseball win over LSU, we have now beaten LSU in baseball and softball and came within 2 points of a win in basketball. Now, we play them again in football this year. Instead of it being our first game of the year, we have two home games before the LSU game vs. Southern and Kansas State, so we will have some game experience under our belt before going into the lion's (er Tiger's) den. LSU plays Washington on the road and Vanderbilt at home before UL. I don't have any illusions about winning the game, but would really like to see us as competitive as we were in basketball or even as Troy was against them this past season. I do see that as a possibility as I think we will have a pretty salty football team this year. It is nice to see us become more competitive with them. It is hard to build a rivalry when one team wins all the time. I would love one day for the UL v. LSU rivalry to build to a point where it is an annual game and is LSU's biggest non-conference game each year. Although a seemingly natural rivalry, we certainly have a long way to go to approach that status.

Not extending Coach Lee's contract last year would have been equivalent to fiiring him at that time. His old contract was up.

[Just1More]

_ I'm willing to go beyond wins and losses.However, I'm only willing to go as far as Utah Valley St, and a 30 pt loss to these guys is indicative of the type of program we have. Now we have to choose whether that's acceptable or not, and I'm not willing to hear any excuses any more. Either we're going to talk about having a great athletic program, or we're going to make decisions that put us in a position to have a great athletic program. I'm tired of talking, dreaming, and being frustrated. I want bowl games, and I want NCAA tournament appearances. Anything less is failure. Period. _

Dang skippy!