Rogers or Lee??

[zephyr]

_ I agree he isn't, and I'm not.

What he is doing is forgoing having any 4th year seniors in 4 years and at best he was creating a mismatch system that was doomed to repeat the emergency need over and over.

If he wasn't able to stick to his HS guns, a balanced system would have been the best way to build a program.

All of one or the other shows no long term foresight.

jmo _

He is sticking to his HS guns. He's bringing in another guy next year who will be a four year guy. Like I've said repeatedly, the large nucleus of this team is youthful guys recruted out of HS. If you need immediate help and want to win now like all fans want you to do, you have to go the Juco route which is done by almost every school at some point in time.

[Turbine]

He is sticking to his HS guns. He's bringing in another guy next year who will be a four year guy. Like I've said repeatedly, the large nucleus of this team is youthful guys recruted out of HS. If you need immediate help and want to win now like all fans want you to do, you have to go the Juco route which is done by almost every school at some point in time.

Then don't declare it like you had an epiphany the way Lee did. Just do it.

I still think his arm was twisted because he had JC needs the year of the HS class.

If he was in fact nudged in that direction, it would -at least in my mind- have created results oriented wiggle room for coach Lee.
igeaux.mobi

[Just1More]

It appears a large part of the assessment of Lee focuses on his recruiting of HS players and/or not going the JUCO/transfer route. My issue wasn't the talent, potential talent or lack thereof on the floor. It was the overall ball play of the team. I've seen good coaches take average players, end up with a mediocre season, but show signs that some real coaching was going on. The UL MBB team showed little to no signs of doing anything more than pickup basketball.

I think a couple of people hit on the "Rogers or Lee" and, in my mind, wrapped up that argument. It isn't which coach did worse, it is which coaching position improvement is more important to the university. Without a doubt, the MBB has a greater impact on the school and it's fans. I hate pitting one against the other... they both need improvement. It is just a matter of which one is more critical to the university.

Tackle MBB first and then address WBB. I am much more inclined to request the AD get the entire system elevated in order to avoid the ridiculousness of this thread's title.

[zephyr]

_ Then don't declare it like you had an epiphany the way Lee did. Just do it.

I still think his arm was twisted because he had JC needs the year of the HS class.

If he was in fact nudged in that direction, it would -at least in my mind- have created results oriented wiggle room for coach Lee.
igeaux.mobi _

I don't think I can explain it any better than it has been said. By your logic, you're saying that if you declare you are going to build your program with HS players, then do it with only HS players right? If so, what if there is a big void in your team on a 1-2 year basis with players exiting that creates a huge void at certain positions and hampers your ability to matchup to many teams decreasing your chances for winning? You are saying then, that you just have to play with who you have and recruit HS players to fill this position. That means that you may not be giving your team the best chance to win on a yearly basis because of the occassional holes created through normal attrition. If so, then there needs to be less emphasis on wins and losses and the coach should be evaluated differently.


The 15-15 team played well at times but it was apparent we were lacking size up front heading into this season. We brought in 3 big guys to help fill that void and a PG because we desperately needed one to allow Daigle and Bureau to play the wings. It would have been harder to find 3 high school bigmen to come in and play well as freshmen considering we had Mitchell coming in the following year and we would have had to go out and sign a PG quickly after it was realized that Daigle is better suited as a SG. Its hard to go out and find 3 6'10 high school guys that aren't committed to large universities to fill that void and even if you find them, they're still freshmen and unproven at this level.

[DestinCajun]

_ I don't think I can explain it any better than it has been said. By your logic, you're saying that if you declare you are going to build your program with HS players, then do it with only HS players right? If so, what if there is a big void in your team on a 1-2 year basis with players exiting that creates a huge void at certain positions and hampers your ability to matchup to many teams decreasing your chances for winning? You are saying then, that you just have to play with who you have and recruit HS players to fill this position. That means that you may not be giving your team the best chance to win on a yearly basis because of the occassional holes created through normal attrition. If so, then there needs to be less emphasis on wins and losses and the coach should be evaluated differently.


The 15-15 team played well at times but it was apparent we were lacking size up front heading into this season. We brought in 3 big guys to help fill that void and a PG because we desperately needed one to allow Daigle and Bureau to play the wings. It would have been harder to find 3 high school bigmen to come in and play well as freshmen considering we had Mitchell coming in the following year and we would have had to go out and sign a PG quickly after it was realized that Daigle is better suited as a SG. Its hard to go out and find 3 6'10 high school guys that aren't committed to large universities to fill that void and even if you find them, they're still freshmen and unproven at this level. _

Zephyr, you have several very recent posts about our coaching situation and the Cajun basketball program that are in the running for POTM (Post of the Month). Keep it up.

[Just1More]

Plus, there is no guarantee that merely replacing Robert Lee will be an improvement. You never quite know what you are getting bringing in a new coach into a struggling mid-major program. With Rogers, there is nowhere to go but up so you know that would be a guaranteed improvement. _

Coach Lee, I respectfully have to disagree... but understand why you feel this way.

[rhineaux]

_ I don't think I can explain it any better than it has been said. By your logic, you're saying that if you declare you are going to build your program with HS players, then do it with only HS players right? If so, what if there is a big void in your team on a 1-2 year basis with players exiting that creates a huge void at certain positions and hampers your ability to matchup to many teams decreasing your chances for winning? You are saying then, that you just have to play with who you have and recruit HS players to fill this position. That means that you may not be giving your team the best chance to win on a yearly basis because of the occassional holes created through normal attrition. If so, then there needs to be less emphasis on wins and losses and the coach should be evaluated differently.


The 15-15 team played well at times but it was apparent we were lacking size up front heading into this season. We brought in 3 big guys to help fill that void and a PG because we desperately needed one to allow Daigle and Bureau to play the wings. It would have been harder to find 3 high school bigmen to come in and play well as freshmen considering we had Mitchell coming in the following year and we would have had to go out and sign a PG quickly after it was realized that Daigle is better suited as a SG. Its hard to go out and find 3 6'10 high school guys that aren't committed to large universities to fill that void and even if you find them, they're still freshmen and unproven at this level. _

I can't speak for Turbine, but I don't think you are totally understanding the point. My interpretation is that if you say you are going the "HS route", that doesn't mean that you will never sign a JUCO again. Things will always come up that will require a coach/program to recruit slightly older and more seasoned players to fill in gaps. However, I think where the disagreement here is that Lee didn't really just bring in a couple players to fill in gaps, he brought in 3 new players, who all had off the court question marks, and expected all of them to be major parts of this program. And if that wasn't his expectation, it was the expectation of a lot of fans, because how many times did we have to hear "wait until the new players come after the semester" or something similar. So, if you are going to stick with HS players for the sake of building a program, building a nucleus, and building leadership roles, then you don't bring in that many new guys, that will complete their eligibility before your High Schoolers, and that have character questions. Because then, you will get what we saw this season, which is a team with no chemistry.

[Turbine]

_ I don't think I can explain it any better than it has been said. By your logic, you're saying that if you declare you are going to build your program with HS players, then do it with only HS players right?

Wrong.

I am saying qute the opposite. There is no way he should have gone all HS the year he did.

Programs built primarily on the Juco route tend to be upper classmen heavy. So if you come out with a crazy all HS class you are manufacturing an upper class void in just 2 years.

If you switch to all Juco the following year to fill the void you are manufacturing an upper class void 4 years from that point in time.

My thing is you should balance the two; (especially in the transition period) if you sprinkle Juco with the majority HS class you don't have an upper class void when the current seniors are gone.

This was a program in the midst of switching programs; it –imo- could not afford to go all one way. It needed to phase in the new while phasing out of the old.

As it happened Lee (or whoever made him do it) forced the program –this last recruiting class- to dip back into the old program model.

Even if Lee is coaching at his best, this recruiting method will keep you in a loop of feast or famine with emergency needs every other year.

Decide which route you are going to go and stick with it.

[zephyr]

_ Wrong.

I am saying qute the opposite. There is no way he should have gone all HS the year he did.

Programs built primarily on the Juco route tend to be upper classmen heavy. So if you come out with a crazy all HS class you are manufacturing an upper class void in just 2 years.

If you switch to all Juco the following year to fill the void you are manufacturing an upper class void 4 years from that point in time.

My thing is you should balance the two; (especially in the transition period) if you sprinkle Juco with the majority HS class you don't have an upper class void when the current seniors are gone.

This was a program in the midst of switching programs; it –imo- could not afford to go all one way. It needed to phase in the new while phasing out of the old.

As it happened Lee (or whoever made him do it) forced the program –this last recruiting class- to dip back into the old program model.

Even if Lee is coaching at his best, this recruiting method will keep you in a loop of feast or famine with emergency needs every other year.

Decide which route you are going to go and stick with it. _

Again, this is where we disagree. Hi IS just sprinkling in some new guys to mix with his nucleus of high school players. Adeife is gone. He had one semester with us. Roberson is more than likely gone and he was paying his own way so he may have not been with us much longer as well. I feel like we agree that you have to have a certain mix to make sure you fill the gaps in class attrition but I just don't think that Lee de-committed from the high school ranks and transitioned into the juco ranks in terms of team makeup.

[Clutch0364]

_ Again, this is where we disagree. Hi IS just sprinkling in some new guys to mix with his nucleus of high school players. Adeife is gone. He had one semester with us. Roberson is more than likely gone and he was paying his own way so he may have not been with us much longer as well. I feel like we agree that you have to have a certain mix to make sure you fill the gaps in class attrition but I just don't think that Lee de-committed from the high school ranks and transitioned into the juco ranks in terms of team makeup. _

What I think Turbine is getting at is damn near all of our players will be running out of eligibility at the same time, which means that regardless of whether he had won this season r next it was going to be feast are famine to rebuild again. He brought in this large high school group and then brought in JUCO's so we can never stabilize because he will constantly be rebuilding every few years. We might have a good year but they become sr's and we do not have any young guys ready to take over.

[reddot]

_ Again, this is where we disagree. Hi IS just sprinkling in some new guys to mix with his nucleus of high school players. Adeife is gone. He had one semester with us. Roberson is more than likely gone and he was paying his own way so he may have not been with us much longer as well. I feel like we agree that you have to have a certain mix to make sure you fill the gaps in class attrition but I just don't think that Lee de-committed from the high school ranks and transitioned into the juco ranks in terms of team makeup. _

So, if he is kept on how many high school players will he sign this year? Adieffe, IMHO you never give a guy a 1/2 a year to contribute to a team! Roberson? What did you get out of that sprinkle.....nothing! Barr....a project at best!
If you are going to compliment high school players with jucos and transfers
you had better do a better job.
Since his staff didn't I believe he has to go.
Along those lines if Lee stays I'll renew my season tics......'cause I won't
stop attending games and supporting the team placed on the court.

[Just1More]

Along those lines if Lee stays I'll renew my season tics......'cause I won't
stop attending games and supporting the team placed on the court. _

I bow to your loyalty and continued anguish in the event this comes true... but you will be one lonely red dot in a sea of empty seats... please wear floaties and beware of the undertow... it will be a rough voyage... in the event.

[raginsaints]

Lee will stay. Rogers will go. I wish both would be gone, but Lee is gonna stay.

[Clutch0364]

_ Lee will stay. Rogers will go. I wish both would be gone, but Lee is gonna stay. _

If that is the decision to me it will not make sense because won't it be more money to buy out Rogers with 2 years left on his contract as opposed to Lee's one?

[raginsaints]

It's not completely about the money. Lee has everyone graduating and there's always the threat of kids transferring if he gets fired. The players seem to like him a lot.