Why did everyone hate Marty Fletcher?

[CajunRed]

_ Despite all the points you bring up, if Marty had been above 0.500 against UNO, he would have been accepted here. _

i was trying to avoid this discussion... because i was very hesitant to relive any Marty years... but let me say a couple of things.

First... Marty was an as_... which is why the MOMENT he began to have less than successful years, he could count his friends on one hand.

Second... anyone who thinks we all would have loved Marty if ONLY he had beat UNO is silly. UNO is not that important. Other losses that should not have happened SURELY could not have been overlooked SIMPLY because he might have beat UNO. That doesn't even make sense.

Marty had a few early successful years, then most of us got tired of underachieving... and having to watch UGLY basketball WHILE we were underachieving.

[zephyr]

_ We would have accepted Jerry Baldwin if he achieved .500.... but he would have also lost to UNO..... even though they don't have football. Sorry for regressing.

I thought Marty was ok... was snake bit by UNO... but those were pretty good years of Ragin Cajun MBB. I don't think I have ever seen a stranger 3 point exhibition than when Sydney Grider, with his behind the head-over the shoulder 3-point shooting, scorched UNO at the Lakefront one night. They were all over him and he still couldn't miss from anywhere on the floor.

I would take back "MartyBall" right now... yes sir. _

This shows you how bad it is right now with our basketball program. Marty years were difficult to watch for me and I'm sure many others. I'm a big believer in defense and his teams treated defense like a disease. They were undisciplined and we often had "that" guy who was a great scorer like Earl "the pearl" Watkins, Grider, Kevin Brooks, Michael Allen etc..but I found we didn't really get the team concept down real well. For guys to even think back to those days and say they'd take him back is showing how bad it is right now.

[Just1More]

_ This shows you how bad it is right now with our basketball program. Marty years were difficult to watch for me and I'm sure many others. I'm a big believer in defense and his teams treated defense like a disease. They were undisciplined and we often had "that" guy who was a great scorer like Earl "the pearl" Watkins, Grider, Kevin Brooks, Michael Allen etc..but I found we didn't really get the team concept down real well. For guys to even think back to those days and say they'd take him back is showing how bad it is right now. _

I wouldn't have "Marty" back by any stretch, but with him long gone, I'm reverting to good memories of some exciting basketball seasons. And you are right... it is so bad right now... I'm thinking too fondly of that past.

[California Cajun]

_ i was trying to avoid this discussion... because i was very hesitant to relive any Marty years... but let me say a couple of things.

First... Marty was an as_... which is why the MOMENT he began to have less than successful years, he could count his friends on one hand.

Second... anyone who thinks we all would have loved Marty if ONLY he had beat UNO is silly. UNO is not that important. Other losses that should not have happened SURELY could not have been overlooked SIMPLY because he might have beat UNO. That doesn't even make sense.

Marty had a few early successful years, then most of us got tired of underachieving... and having to watch UGLY basketball WHILE we were underachieving. _

Cajunsmike is about the most knowledgeable basketball fan I know, so when he expresses an opinion I seldom disagree with it. He's also level headed and respectful of other opinions within reason. But I disagree on this subject.

The Fletcher years interest me because I'm a transplant. I attribute the whole thing to a culture clash, and neither he nor the community could make it work. There are places where people like him are liked. When he came I had marginal interest in basketball, and what happened during his watch pretty much killed it. It's interesting to read some these posts reliving some peak experiences we don't see any more, like sellout crowds and national TV. He finished 30 games over .500. If memory serves me correctly, he built Denver into a contender, but was fired and the next coach got the credit.

If there is a change at the end of the season, it's really important to get somebody who can not only evaluate talent and coach, but function in the community.

[ShowDog]

_ This shows you how bad it is right now with our basketball program. Marty years were difficult to watch for me and I'm sure many others. I'm a big believer in defense and his teams treated defense like a disease. They were undisciplined and we often had "that" guy who was a great scorer like Earl "the pearl" Watkins, Grider, Kevin Brooks, Michael Allen etc..but I found we didn't really get the team concept down real well. For guys to even think back to those days and say they'd take him back is showing how bad it is right now. _

I've been following SLI/USL/UL since the 50's. Only Beryl Shipley and Bobby Paschal had disciplined teams. They didn't allow playground basketball crap, and their defenses were unbelievable.

Marty, Evans, and now Lee let these guys run wild. It's pathetic.

[CajunRed]

_ Cajunsmike is about the most knowledgeable basketball fan I know, so when he expresses an opinion I seldom disagree with it. He's also level headed and respectful of other opinions within reason. But I disagree on this subject.

The Fletcher years interest me because I'm a transplant. I attribute the whole thing to a culture clash, and neither he nor the community could make it work. There are places where people like him are liked. When he came I had marginal interest in basketball, and what happened during his watch pretty much killed it. It's interesting to read some these posts reliving some peak experiences we don't see any more, like sellout crowds and national TV. He finished 30 games over .500. If memory serves me correctly, he built Denver into a contender, but was fired and the next coach got the credit.

If there is a change at the end of the season, it's really important to get somebody who can not only evaluate talent and coach, but function in the community. _

That "culture clash" crap always irritates me. I wouldn't care if we hired someone from Mars... if he could come in here... run an ethical program... have kids that are, for the most part, interested in getting educated... and had a winning program.

For any program to grow, or "get to the next level" as we often say, you must first WIN THE GAMES YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO WIN... then win a game here and there that you are NOT suppose to win! To continue climbing up, a program needs to win one or two more games each year on the "not suppose to win" side. (See UTAH football... see GONZAGA basketball... see SOUTH FLORIDA football) That is how ANY program elevates itself.

The problem with Marty is that we might pick off a team every now and then that we were not picked to beat, but then would undo that by losing to two or three teams we had no business losing to! You can't improve a program by doing that year after year!

Oh, and add to that... Marty was an as_ as a person!

[California Cajun]

_
The problem with Marty is that we might pick off a team every now and then that we were not picked to beat, but then would undo that by losing to two or three teams we had no business losing to! You can't improve a program by doing that year after year!

Oh, and add to that... Marty was an as_ as a person! _

I think what you said in your first point happened to every coach since Shipley, and your second point confirms my point, that it was harder for you to overlook Fletcher's shortcomings than others because you had a personal dislike for him.

Remember, Shipley and Fletcher are the only coaches in UL history to ever win any NCAA Division I Tournament games, and they both went two deep in the tournament.

[CajunRed]

_ I think what you said in your first point happened to every coach since Shipley, and your second point confirms my point, that it was harder for you to overlook Fletcher's shortcomings than others because you had a personal dislike for him.

Remember, Shipley and Fletcher are the only coaches in UL history to ever win any NCAA Division I Tournament games, and they both went two deep in the tournament. _

No... you missed the important thing, which was the upper portion of my comments. I like UL athletics enough that if Marty had been successful in the areas that I pointed out, I could hate the man, which I didn't, and I could still want him as a coach because he is bringing us that success.

I only pointed out that he was an as_. I never said I hated him. You assumed that.

I'm done taling in circles about this. Anyone who was here for Marty and considers the part I said about "winning those you should"... added to "winning a few now and then that you shouldn't" would probably agree that the comments are right on.

[Cajuns71]

I'm with slow Dog on this one, having followed the Bulldogs-Cajuns for that long too--Shipley and Pascal were the best--My wife and I were just talking about the Pascal days---we were one of the nationn's best independent teams at the time--that's a long time ago for a school with our past basketball history.

[Cajunsmike]

Cajunsmike is about the most knowledgeable basketball fan I know, so when he expresses an opinion I seldom disagree with it. He's also level headed and respectful of other opinions within reason. But I disagree on this subject.

The Fletcher years interest me because I'm a transplant. I attribute the whole thing to a culture clash, and neither he nor the community could make it work. There are places where people like him are liked. When he came I had marginal interest in basketball, and what happened during his watch pretty much killed it. It's interesting to read some these posts reliving some peak experiences we don't see any more, like sellout crowds and national TV. He finished 30 games over .500. If memory serves me correctly, he built Denver into a contender, but was fired and the next coach got the credit.

If there is a change at the end of the season, it's really important to get somebody who can not only evaluate talent and coach, but function in the community.

Cali, I don't disagree that Marty had trouble fitting into the culture here. However, had we beaten UNO more regularly, we would have been in post season play several times. Often times it was the first game of the conference season which hurt confidence for the next few games. Those years that were 20 and 9 might have been 23 and 6 with UNO wins. Fans will accept anyone with that kind of record.