College grads without student debt are 7 times wealthier than their indebted peers

[CajunRage]

You do know this saves our athletic department some money. In state athletes use TOPS to save us money. Should we give it back?

Surprised the NCAA hasn't come down on us for this....

[barchief]

Not true on the part I highlighted as to the programs original intent. However, it has dwarfed over the years to be an all-inclusive program exclusive of household economic status.

It is a great program and became a model for the nation but like every good government run program, over time it has become an out of control giant that requires yearly debate on "How can we afford it". That's the part that scares me. They will take a great and well intended program and destroy it in the name of (pick em):
Equality
Fairness
Entitlement
yada yada yada.

It should not have economic qualifiers tied to it. That's what Pell grants are for. If you make the academic standards, you should get TOPS.. period.

Why should middle class families get saddled with mountains of student loan debt when the Fed pays for poor people to go to college, and rich people can pay their own way?

[barchief]

You do know this saves our athletic department some money. In state athletes use TOPS to save us money. Should we give it back?

TOPS doesn't "save" our program money, especially in the equivalency sports such as baseball and track. They are only allowed to give out a certain amount of money spread across the entire team (and Track and Cross Country are combined, so they have to share money).. period... TOPS only comes into play if the athlete does not meet certain academic standards (if I remember reading correctly).

Does it help us as far as keeping some in-state athletes here? of course. But it is not "saving" us money.... if the magic number is 50K as far as what a program can give out, that's the number. The student athlete would have gotten TOPS with or without playing sports.

It's a negotiating tactic when you are being recruited... kinda like shopping for a car... always negotiate the price first, then tell them you have a trade in. When being recruited, get the offer, then figure TOPS on top of that.

[BeauCajun]

http://www.taylorplan.com/about/history/



So the question I have is do you support:
1. Raising the academic standard to help control cost? or
2. Leave academic standards alone and limit eligibility based on household income?

Either option will bring howls from the masses who are negatively affected by a change.

No question for me. I go with #1.

[CajunRage]

No question for me. I go with #1.

#3. If you take money from the state and don't graduate, pay it back.

[CajunT]

26 on the ACT? that's a bit tough when the state average is 20.3 and even a 25 composite would put you in the top 13% of the state, so a 26 or higher would put you in the top 10%.

Chances are, if you have a 26 or higher, you are going to qualify for other scholarships as well.

In the grand scheme of things, TOPS only pays for about 29% of the total cost of a semester.

For UL, the total per semester (Tuition, fees, books, room, board) is around $6788. TOPS only covers $1963 of this, so if you don't live with your parents, you still have student loans to make.

I do think that the standards need to be raised from a 20 to a 21 on the ACT, and I also think that if you do not get your degree within 8 years of your first enrolled semester, you should have to pay back all TOPS money that was given.

Some people may say that raising the standards hurts the kids that come from less than desirable conditions, but chances are that those kids are receiving Pell grants that will take care of alot of their expenses anyways.

TOPS was meant to help the middle class parents that aren't rich enough to pay the entire way for their kids, but make too much to qualify for federal grants.

And that is what I love about the program.. it could care less how much money your family brings in... you either qualify or you don't.

And what about kids that don't do standardized tests well? One of my boys is graduating today with a 3.2 GPA, but has ALWAYS struggled in a standardized testing environment. Heck.. even his twin brother is graduating today with a 3.9+, but only made a 25 on the ACT.

That is not entirely true, every year we have to fill out paperwork that requires your total worth and income from the previous year. If your income increased over the previous year, it is considered.

[garmen]

It should not have economic qualifiers tied to it. That's what Pell grants are for. If you make the academic standards, you should get TOPS.. period.

Why should middle class families get saddled with mountains of student loan debt when the Fed pays for poor people to go to college, and rich people can pay their own way?

Please qualify your definition of "Middle Class", cause our politicians are all over the board on that one. I some circles, my family would be considered "Middle Class" while in others I am considered "Upper Middle Class" or "Wealthy" (Definitely not a "Top 1%er). Here is the bottom line. I love TOPS. My oldest son is heading to UL in August and TOPS is a part of our cost equation. But lets not fool ourselves into thinking we have a bottomless pit of money.

TOPS has helped create educational opportunities where there were limited means before. And it forced all the remedial students into Community College, Tech School or other avenues in order to help mold their academic performance. Hence, you see overall grade points at UL increasing. Would not have happened without TOPS influence. Universities across the state have to be smarter in managing cost just as much as we all do otherwise they will all end up with $1B annual budgets like the University of Minnesota did or bankrupt like Detroit is...

[garmen]

#3. If you take money from the state and don't graduate, pay it back.

Totally agree.. The armed forces require it if you do not fulfill your military commitment.

[barchief]

That is not entirely true, every year we have to fill out paperwork that requires your total worth and income from the previous year. If your income increased over the previous year, it is considered.

Whether you have to fill out a FASFA or not is irrelevant. It doesn't matter WHAT your income level is.. the TOPS award is standard regardless of if you make 10K a year or 100K a year. The award is different year to year because of the tuition increases of the individual university.

[CajunRage]

Totally agree.. The armed forces require it if you do not fulfill your military commitment.

I know others experienced the same thing. I had classes with people who failed semester #1, went on probation and failed semester #2. Dropped out and got a job. That's thousands of dollars per person wasted.