LSBR

[ULtimateCajun]

Why do I feel like this thread has shifted so far away from the original point?

[TigerRagAndrew]

Unfortunately you folks are indeed correct about UL's superiority in the computer science program. I tried to explain to my fellow students who were interested in computer science to take engineering at LSU, since the major course programs (algorithms, data structures, and assembly language) overlap and the engineering curriculum is not only more respected, but accredited.

LSU needs to take a page out of MIT's book and merge the ECE and CS departments. Currently the CS department belongs to the College of Basic Sciences, which just doesn't make any sense at all to me.

[CajunFun]

Simple logic. If event A takes place before event B, it cannot be concluded that event A caused event B.

All of those things would have happened at LSU even if UL never existed.

For what it's worth, I agree with your points--I'm only debating the validity of your arguments.

Actually, you've hit on an interesting philosophical question... I think it was Locke who pointed out that the theory of gravity isn't known; just because everything we've ever dropped heads to the floor, is no guarantee that the next time we do it, it will. That sounds ridiculous, but if you are absolutely ruthless and rigorous in your analysis, you can see Locke's point. (And if that still sounds ridiculous, over the past century scientific philosophers have given up on the possibility of "truth"; we simply share paradigms, which shift. Consider how radically our concept of the atom has changed in the past 30 years.)

So we work with the best we have, which are pre-existing patterns. In the case of UL vs State, it's not a single B follows A; it's that it happens repeatedly. In fact, just about every time we do something really innovative, State is quickly all over it. There were still more examples of this (UAM, Cajun language and culture, NIMSAT, biofuels, et al) that I did not even mention.

And I would point out that, except for RCAF (which is really an administrative change, since the ULF was already accepting athletics donations), I really don't know of anything State has originated, that we have been eager to copy.

Does that surprise any of us? I think that innovation is a cultural phenomenon: consider the US vs the rest of the world.

Then, look at the BR and State culture. Are they original, innovative? Not really.

Lafayette & UL, on the other hand, are constantly leading the state, the South, and occasionally the nation, in trying new things.

Where does the innovative culture come from? I could write a book on it, and in fact, I hope to some day. But let me say this much: it's tolerance. Not acceptance, mere tolerance. And part of tolerance is that you don't laugh at people who look different, act different or-- and this is the key point-- think different. (As an aside, look at what a misfit I am, and some of the other Cajun fans are, under the Eauque. As long as you're reasonably polite, you're welcome to participate.)

So you don't have to encourage innovation; you just have to tolerate it; consider the free market, the first amendment, and the democratic process. If you simply tolerate innovation, it will grow like a very valuable weed.

So what are they doing in BR? Look at the way they ridicule us. Look at the way they scoffed at the Cajun culture, until it became internationally popular. Look at the way they make wild fun of anything, and anyone, who is different, who doesn't march to their drumbeat, who doesn't mindlessly bow down to the mediocrity that is our capital city, and our flagship university.

And that my friends, is UL v. State, and Lafayette v. BR, in a nutshell.

[CajunFun]

...LSU had a Coastal Studies Institute way before the Wetlands Research Center. The programs overlap quite a bit. Were we copying LSU? The answer is no, but that is not the way some at LSU feel.

You're correct. That is one we "stole" from State.

But not because we went after it.

The Wetlands Center was supposed to go to State. The Tiagras screwed the pooch so badly that the Wetlands Center came knocking on our door, asking if they could move here.

Same thing with the Insurance Program. I am told that G. Frank Purdy was a former State Alumni president. He gave a huge bundle of cash to create an insurance program over there. They hired a few people, but created no program.

So he came over here and created one.

Same thing with the Picard Center. It was supposed to be at State. State kept playing games, they approached us.

So actually, we're not copying them; they're losing assets to us because of gross mismanagement.

And there are other entities who are approaching us right now... some of them are already on the State campus, and some even bear the LSU name.

State abuses people, and it costs them.

[Cajunsmike]

_ You're correct. That is one we "stole" from State.

But not because we went after it.

The Wetlands Center was supposed to go to State. The Tiagras screwed the pooch so badly that the Wetlands Center came knocking on our door, asking if they could move here.

Same thing with the Insurance Program. I am told that G. Frank Purdy was a former State Alumni president. He gave a huge bundle of cash to create an insurance program over there. They hired a few people, but created no program.

So he came over here and created one.

Same thing with the Picard Center. It was supposed to be at State. State kept playing games, they approached us.

So actually, we're not copying them; they're losing assets to us because of gross mismanagement.

And there are other entities who are approaching us right now... some of them are already on the State campus, and some even bear the LSU name.

State abuses people, and it costs them. _

You may be correct in some of your comments regarding LSU's way of doing things. However they are successful in something many in Louisiana care about deeply. Of course that thing is football. Yes they had help from Huey Long in getting it kicked off many years ago but there is nothing we can do about that. Like it or not, in order to get the respect we would like (both academically and athletically) for our school, we need to improve in that area. I know it is a somewhat misguided view but perception is reality.

[CajunFun]

You may be correct in some of your comments regarding LSU's way of doing things. However they are successful in something many in Louisiana care about deeply. Of course that thing is football. Yes they had help from Huey Long in getting it kicked off many years ago but there is nothing we can do about that. Like it or not, in order to get the respect we would like (both academically and athletically) for our school, we need to improve in that area. I know it is a somewhat misguided view but perception is reality.

Mike, you're a smart guy. But for the life of me, I can't see how this fits the current conversation.

Since you brought it up however, yes, State gave the public circuses.

But they failed the Roman maxim, because they gave us no bread.

I am firmly of the opinion that Louisiana trails the nation in most quality-of-life indicators, precisely because State gave us sports instead of education, championships instead of leadership. And today, the great majority of people in Louisiana don't realize that there are any differences there.

It's great that some of us realize that sports is a means to an end. Too many people-- and some, I fear, post on these boards-- believe that sports is an end all to itself.

And that just scares the bejeezus out of me.

[CajunKahouna]

_ Actually, you've hit on an interesting philosophical question... I think it was Locke who pointed out that the theory of gravity isn't known; just because everything we've ever dropped heads to the floor, is no guarantee that the next time we do it, it will. That sounds ridiculous, but if you are absolutely ruthless and rigorous in your analysis, you can see Locke's point. (And if that still sounds ridiculous, over the past century scientific philosophers have given up on the possibility of "truth"; we simply share paradigms, which shift. Consider how radically our concept of the atom has changed in the past 30 years.)

So we work with the best we have, which are pre-existing patterns. In the case of UL vs State, it's not a single B follows A; it's that it happens repeatedly. In fact, just about every time we do something really innovative, State is quickly all over it. There were still more examples of this (UAM, Cajun language and culture, NIMSAT, biofuels, et al) that I did not even mention.

And I would point out that, except for RCAF (which is really an administrative change, since the ULF was already accepting athletics donations), I really don't know of anything State has originated, that we have been eager to copy.

Does that surprise any of us? I think that innovation is a cultural phenomenon: consider the US vs the rest of the world.

Then, look at the BR and State culture. Are they original, innovative? Not really.

Lafayette & UL, on the other hand, are constantly leading the state, the South, and occasionally the nation, in trying new things.

Where does the innovative culture come from? I could write a book on it, and in fact, I hope to some day. But let me say this much: it's tolerance. Not acceptance, mere tolerance. And part of tolerance is that you don't laugh at people who look different, act different or-- and this is the key point-- think different. (As an aside, look at what a misfit I am, and some of the other Cajun fans are, under the Eauque. As long as you're reasonably polite, you're welcome to participate.)

So you don't have to encourage innovation; you just have to tolerate it; consider the free market, the first amendment, and the democratic process. If you simply tolerate innovation, it will grow like a very valuable weed.

So what are they doing in BR? Look at the way they ridicule us. Look at the way they scoffed at the Cajun culture, until it became internationally popular. Look at the way they make wild fun of anything, and anyone, who is different, who doesn't march to their drumbeat, who doesn't mindlessly bow down to the mediocrity that is our capital city, and our flagship university.

And that my friends, is UL v. State, and Lafayette v. BR, in a nutshell. _

Touche

[CajunCharlie]

_ When LSBR duplicated our PhD program in CS, it was still a very new field, we had one of the few such programs in the county. And the Board of Regents admitted as such, saying in the Master Plan from two years previous, "U(S)L should remain the only doctoral program in Computer Science in Louisiana.

LSBR had very little interest in basketball before we had a team.

LSBR had NO interest in softball before we had a team.

LSBR had never thought about creating a Research Park before we created ours.

Whether or not they should have them is moot. The question is, why do they constantly do it AFTER us?

When was the last time State brought something new or helpful to Louisiana? Why does a school with all of their assets have to copy the poor little school down the road?

I'll tell you why. They are obsessed with the fear that someone might show them for what they really are.

PS Laughable and ridiculous are points of view. I, for one, think people who write without knowledge are laughable and ridiculous. _

I seem to recall, correct me if I am mistaken, that they recruited some supposedly high echelon professors from west coast and northwest universities to develop their program. Two years later most of these recruits had abondoned lsu. I can't recall any reasons for their departure, but there surely must have been some....too much politics, not given what was promised, etc. Nevertheless, it set the program back, and to my knowledge has never recovered, despite any lack of funds.

[Cajunsmike]

Mike, you're a smart guy. But for the life of me, I can't see how this fits the current conversation.

Since you brought it up however, yes, State gave the public circuses.

But they failed the Roman maxim, because they gave us no bread.

I am firmly of the opinion that Louisiana trails the nation in most quality-of-life indicators, precisely because State gave us sports instead of education, championships instead of leadership. And today, the great majority of people in Louisiana don't realize that there are any differences there.

It's great that some of us realize that sports is a means to an end. Too many people-- and some, I fear, post on these boards-- believe that sports is an end all to itself.

And that just scares the bejeezus out of me.

I will repeat my last sentence in my earlier post. Perception is reality. Perception is that since we have not done well in football, we must be lacking academically. I know that is silly but unfortunately that is the way too many in Louisiana view things. LSU of course does well in sports and that makes people think they are great academically. Again I know it should not be that way but that does not change the fact that's how people view things. Although there may be some here who see sports as an end to itself, I think most see it as a mean to a greater good.