Interview with Robert Lee

[CajunFun]

For the past few weeks, I've been writing essays questioning what makes for a great program, and criticizing the over-emphasis on winning.

I didn't need to this week. Robert Lee says it for me...

[rgncjn12]

_ For the past few weeks, I've been writing essays questioning what makes for a great program, and criticizing the over-emphasis on winning.

I didn't need to this week. Robert Lee says it for me...

_

Great, without reading the article, based on your comment. My first thought was awesome we have a coach that thinks over emphasising wining does not make a great program! JEEZ!

[CajunFun]

Great, without reading the article, based on your comment. My first thought was awesome we have a coach that thinks over emphasising wining does not make a great program! JEEZ!

Ah yes. It is much easier to reach conclusions when one doesn't have to worry about the details and the realities.

Thinking is such a bore...

[Cajunsmike]

_ Great, without reading the article, based on your comment. My first thought was awesome we have a coach that thinks over emphasising wining does not make a great program! JEEZ! _

If you read the article, you see that a coach who has tremendously high goals (unrealistic in some people's minds) knows how important winning is. I read the article and believe a response is needed here on one point (sorry Joe). Note Coach said that when the team is struggling, that is when they need the crowd to support the team more than ever. He notices that happens at many of the venues they go to on the road. That is a problem all of our sports have.

[rgncjn12]

_ Ah yes. It is much easier to reach conclusions when one doesn't have to worry about the details and the realities.

Thinking is such a bore...

_

I never said I reached a conclusion! I said my first impression without reading the article! But apparantly you can jump to conclusion without reading my full statement!

Like I said, my first impression without reading the article. After reading the article I am still a little suprised how winning is downplayed. A great program wins no matter what external factors are contributing.

When deciding whether to fire or retain a coach, yes all the other factors are important such as GPA etc, but in terms of what fans consider a great program-----WINNING!!!!!
GEAUX UL!

[CajunFun]

I never said I reached a conclusion! I said my first impression without reading the article! But apparantly you can jump to conclusion without reading my full statement!

Like I said, my first impression without reading the article. After reading the article I am still a little suprised how winning is downplayed. A great program wins no matter what external factors are contributing.

When deciding whether to fire or retain a coach, yes all the other factors are important such as GPA etc, but in terms of what fans consider a great program-----WINNING!!!!!
GEAUX UL!

There are as many ways to define "greatness" as there are people on the planet. Many people feel that winning is all you need; Barry Bonds is as great as Hank Aaron, and Britney Spears is as great as Angelina Jolie.

Some of us however-- and clearly, Robert Lee is one-- believe that winning is simply a by-product, it's something that comes out of an overall pursuit for excellence: if you pursue excellence, winning just follows. It's that simple.

On the other hand, if you do not place education, community, and character above winning, then you may win for a while.

But eventually, your will lose them all.

If that isn't immediately obvious, you may never understand it.

[rgncjn12]

_ Some of us however-- and clearly, Robert Lee is one-- believe that winning is simply a by-product, it's something that comes out of an overall pursuit for excellence: if you pursue excellence, winning just follows. It's that simple.

On the other hand, if you do not place education, community, and character above winning, then you may win for a while.

But eventually, your will lose them all.

If that isn't immediately obvious, you may never understand it. _

If winning is a by-product to an overall pursuit of excellence when do you expect Coach Bustle to start winning? By all accounts education, community, and character have all drastically improved since Bustle's arrival, so where is the by-product WINNING?

The other areas you mentioned can only get a "program" so far, eventually you have to "JUST WIN BABY"!

GEAUX UL!

[CajunFun]

If winning is a by-product to an overall pursuit of excellence when do you expect Coach Bustle to start winning? By all accounts education, community, and character have all drastically improved since Bustle's arrival, so where is the by-product WINNING?

The other areas you mentioned can only get a "program" so far, eventually you have to "JUST WIN BABY"!

GEAUX UL!

So can we safely conclude that you will sacrifice education, community, and character, in order to win?

[rhineaux]

_ So can we safely conclude that you will sacrifice education, community, and character, in order to win? _

I don't really see how you gathered that from reading either of his posts. I certainly didn't.

In all your pondering about overemphasizing wins in sports, have you ever considered that the reason you compete is to win?

I agree with rgncjn12...I don't care how many nice guys and smart guys the coaches put on the teams, if they don't win, then something needs to change. I'm certainly not saying that I would want a team full of thugs who are criminals and have tutors take tests for them, but there are plenty of programs out there who have players that get the job done on the street, in the classroom, AND on the field/court. I think he gave a very good example in asking about Bustle. I'd like to hear your take on him, as well.

Like RC12 said, those off the field things can only get a program so far. The wins are the structure (foundation, studs, nails) of the program. Those other things are like the bricks, they're only there to make it look good.

[CajunFun]

I don't really see how you gathered that from reading either of his posts. I certainly didn't.

In all your pondering about overemphasizing wins in sports, have you ever considered that the reason you compete is to win?

I agree with rgncjn12...I don't care how many nice guys and smart guys the coaches put on the teams, if they don't win, then something needs to change. I'm certainly not saying that I would want a team full of thugs who are criminals and have tutors take tests for them, but there are plenty of programs out there who have players that get the job done on the street, in the classroom, AND on the field/court. I think he gave a very good example in asking about Bustle. I'd like to hear your take on him, as well.

Like RC12 said, those off the field things can only get a program so far. The wins are the structure (foundation, studs, nails) of the program. Those other things are like the bricks, they're only there to make it look good.

You made several points and asked several questions. Rather than get side-tracked, let me simply stick to my point.

At some time, every program reaches critical junctures, where they have to choose which is more important, character or winning.

The average fan never thinks about it. He just perseverates on Win-Win-Win. The average fan rationalizes all other concerns away.

So if we don't decide where our priorities lie, then the Win-Win-Win folks do just that... they win.

Character loses.

And before anyone says character and winning are equally important, that just doesn't work. If character and winning are of equal importance, then you can exchange them. If they are equally valuable, you can trade character for wins.

And the average fan will do it every time.

I have a greater investment in this place than many. UL and Acadiana are my home. I want excellence here. I want excellent people, excellent businesses, an excellent community, and an excellent University.

For me, everything else-- EVERYTHING-- is secondary.

I have seen schools and communities that have reversed that, they have made everything else secondary to winning. They live to win.

I detest those people. I detest those communities.

I don't want to be around them.

Personally, I believe that winning is a by-product of excellence. From the preceding, some of you apparently disagree. So let me say that, even if winning weren't a by-product of excellence, I would gladly take some losses in order to do it right.

That's where I differ with some of you. We can argue about who's right and who's wrong but the fact is, we simply disagree.

Character, excellence, education, my community, and my University, are all more important to me than winning is.

Some of you apparently feel otherwise.

[rgncjn12]

Character, excellence, education, my community, and my University, are all more important to me than winning is.

Some of you apparently feel otherwise. _

Fun,

I agree completely with your above statement with regards to THE UNIVERSITY. However, when it comes to the ATHLETIC PROGRAM, I'd rather have 9 wins and a team gpa of 2.0, then 3 wins and a team gpa of 3.0.

GEAUX UL!

If I follow your thought correctly, you believe Bustle is no where near being on the hot seat, because even with his lack of wins, he has excelled on the virtues you believe to be important? You haven't specifically answered my previous question to you regarding Bustle?

[CajunFun]

Fun,

I agree completely with your above statement with regards to THE UNIVERSITY. However, when it comes to the ATHLETIC PROGRAM, I'd rather have 9 wins and a team gpa of 2.0, then 3 wins and a team gpa of 3.0.

GEAUX UL!

If I follow your thought correctly, you believe Bustle is no where near being on the hot seat, because even with his lack of wins, he has excelled on the virtues you believe to be important? You haven't specifically answered my previous question to you regarding Bustle?

Let's stick to the topic.

In athletics, you would choose wins over character. Am I correct?

[rgncjn12]

_ Let's stick to the topic.

In athletics, you would choose wins over character. Am I correct? _

To a degree. I do not wins with thugs, drunks, and/or criminals. But I'll take a kid a little rough on the edges to get a few more wins, then a polished "choir" boy. Its all about how much you want to sacrifice to win. It seems you are in the minority regarding the extreme you want character over wins. I am more in the middle, I dont mind having a kid on the team that isn't on the dean's list, and isnt a perfect angel. None of us where angels in college, we all had fun, and caused harmless trouble.

GEAUX UL!

Regarding Bustle, I am certainly appreciative of the values he has instilled into the program, however I think he his sorely lacking in wins. How do you feel? And I also believe the schedule is setup for him to fail this year. I don't t hink it was setup on purpose for him to fail, it just fell that way.

[cajun4life]

_ You made several points and asked several questions. Rather than get side-tracked, let me simply stick to my point.

At some time, every program reaches critical junctures, where they have to choose which is more important, character or winning.

The average fan never thinks about it. He just perseverates on Win-Win-Win. The average fan rationalizes all other concerns away.

So if we don't decide where our priorities lie, then the Win-Win-Win folks do just that... they win.

Character loses.

And before anyone says character and winning are equally important, that just doesn't work. If character and winning are of equal importance, then you can exchange them. If they are equally valuable, you can trade character for wins.

And the average fan will do it every time.

I have a greater investment in this place than many. UL and Acadiana are my home. I want excellence here. I want excellent people, excellent businesses, an excellent community, and an excellent University.

For me, everything else-- EVERYTHING-- is secondary.

I have seen schools and communities that have reversed that, they have made everything else secondary to winning. They live to win.

I detest those people. I detest those communities.

I don't want to be around them.

Personally, I believe that winning is a by-product of excellence. From the preceding, some of you apparently disagree. So let me say that, even if winning weren't a by-product of excellence, I would gladly take some losses in order to do it right.

That's where I differ with some of you. We can argue about who's right and who's wrong but the fact is, we simply disagree.

Character, excellence, education, my community, and my University, are all more important to me than winning is.

Some of you apparently feel otherwise. _

Fun I agree with 99% of the stuff you have written in this entire thread and the article on ULToday.com as well.

Where I disagree with you is, in order for UL to reach the expectations that you have stated in this post then winning is a must. In order to get the community involved in UL and supprting UL then we must win.

In my opinion UL has failed the community, the community has not failed UL. Doc A ran UL the same way as Castro ran Cuba, no outside input and he killed the support for UL in Acadiana. We do not have to sacrifice the goals that you think should be our priority for winning. On the contrary, winning can instill excellence and bring the community together.

Right now Acadiana belongs to LSU plain and simple. This is UL's fault entirely, they severed ties with their own student body and Acadiana in order to advance the academic standing of UL.

Look at Michigan, Florida, Cal, UCLA, Texas, TAMU all of these schools have what you want. Great academics and great athletics so you can have both and have a balance between the two. All of these schools symbolize greatness and we should strive to be like them, but we do not. UL does not want to succeed in athletics and it is shamefull.

[BirdofParadise]

_ To a degree. I do not wins with thugs, drunks, and/or criminals. But I'll take a kid a little rough on the edges to get a few more wins, then a polished "choir" boy. Its all about how much you want to sacrifice to win. It seems you are in the minority regarding the extreme you want character over wins. I am more in the middle, I dont mind having a kid on the team that isn't on the dean's list, and isnt a perfect angel. None of us where angels in college, we all had fun, and caused harmless trouble.

GEAUX UL!

Regarding Bustle, I am certainly appreciative of the values he has instilled into the program, however I think he his sorely lacking in wins. How do you feel? And I also believe the schedule is setup for him to fail this year. I don't t hink it was setup on purpose for him to fail, it just fell that way. _

There is no reason why you can't do BOTH. I agree with you that, sooner or later, coaches are judged by wins and losses. And, I have no problem with that.

But Fun is also correct. And, with the APR and graduation rates gettting more and more scrutiny, you'd better have some of those choir boys in order to balance out the rough edge guys.

It's called winning the right way. The downside is, it takes longer to accomplish....especially if your predecessor didn't feel the same way. (Case in point....Lee vs. Evans and Bustle vs. Baldwin.)

But it CAN be accomplished............and the right way is the way it should be done.

But, 12, you also have to win to stay employed. Both Bustle and Lee need to accomplish that part of it soon.