Interview with Robert Lee

[rgncjn12]

_ Let's stick to the topic.

In athletics, you would choose wins over character. Am I correct? _

To a degree. I do not wins with thugs, drunks, and/or criminals. But I'll take a kid a little rough on the edges to get a few more wins, then a polished "choir" boy. Its all about how much you want to sacrifice to win. It seems you are in the minority regarding the extreme you want character over wins. I am more in the middle, I dont mind having a kid on the team that isn't on the dean's list, and isnt a perfect angel. None of us where angels in college, we all had fun, and caused harmless trouble.

GEAUX UL!

Regarding Bustle, I am certainly appreciative of the values he has instilled into the program, however I think he his sorely lacking in wins. How do you feel? And I also believe the schedule is setup for him to fail this year. I don't t hink it was setup on purpose for him to fail, it just fell that way.

[cajun4life]

_ You made several points and asked several questions. Rather than get side-tracked, let me simply stick to my point.

At some time, every program reaches critical junctures, where they have to choose which is more important, character or winning.

The average fan never thinks about it. He just perseverates on Win-Win-Win. The average fan rationalizes all other concerns away.

So if we don't decide where our priorities lie, then the Win-Win-Win folks do just that... they win.

Character loses.

And before anyone says character and winning are equally important, that just doesn't work. If character and winning are of equal importance, then you can exchange them. If they are equally valuable, you can trade character for wins.

And the average fan will do it every time.

I have a greater investment in this place than many. UL and Acadiana are my home. I want excellence here. I want excellent people, excellent businesses, an excellent community, and an excellent University.

For me, everything else-- EVERYTHING-- is secondary.

I have seen schools and communities that have reversed that, they have made everything else secondary to winning. They live to win.

I detest those people. I detest those communities.

I don't want to be around them.

Personally, I believe that winning is a by-product of excellence. From the preceding, some of you apparently disagree. So let me say that, even if winning weren't a by-product of excellence, I would gladly take some losses in order to do it right.

That's where I differ with some of you. We can argue about who's right and who's wrong but the fact is, we simply disagree.

Character, excellence, education, my community, and my University, are all more important to me than winning is.

Some of you apparently feel otherwise. _

Fun I agree with 99% of the stuff you have written in this entire thread and the article on ULToday.com as well.

Where I disagree with you is, in order for UL to reach the expectations that you have stated in this post then winning is a must. In order to get the community involved in UL and supprting UL then we must win.

In my opinion UL has failed the community, the community has not failed UL. Doc A ran UL the same way as Castro ran Cuba, no outside input and he killed the support for UL in Acadiana. We do not have to sacrifice the goals that you think should be our priority for winning. On the contrary, winning can instill excellence and bring the community together.

Right now Acadiana belongs to LSU plain and simple. This is UL's fault entirely, they severed ties with their own student body and Acadiana in order to advance the academic standing of UL.

Look at Michigan, Florida, Cal, UCLA, Texas, TAMU all of these schools have what you want. Great academics and great athletics so you can have both and have a balance between the two. All of these schools symbolize greatness and we should strive to be like them, but we do not. UL does not want to succeed in athletics and it is shamefull.

[BirdofParadise]

_ To a degree. I do not wins with thugs, drunks, and/or criminals. But I'll take a kid a little rough on the edges to get a few more wins, then a polished "choir" boy. Its all about how much you want to sacrifice to win. It seems you are in the minority regarding the extreme you want character over wins. I am more in the middle, I dont mind having a kid on the team that isn't on the dean's list, and isnt a perfect angel. None of us where angels in college, we all had fun, and caused harmless trouble.

GEAUX UL!

Regarding Bustle, I am certainly appreciative of the values he has instilled into the program, however I think he his sorely lacking in wins. How do you feel? And I also believe the schedule is setup for him to fail this year. I don't t hink it was setup on purpose for him to fail, it just fell that way. _

There is no reason why you can't do BOTH. I agree with you that, sooner or later, coaches are judged by wins and losses. And, I have no problem with that.

But Fun is also correct. And, with the APR and graduation rates gettting more and more scrutiny, you'd better have some of those choir boys in order to balance out the rough edge guys.

It's called winning the right way. The downside is, it takes longer to accomplish....especially if your predecessor didn't feel the same way. (Case in point....Lee vs. Evans and Bustle vs. Baldwin.)

But it CAN be accomplished............and the right way is the way it should be done.

But, 12, you also have to win to stay employed. Both Bustle and Lee need to accomplish that part of it soon.

[Just1More]

_ I don't really see how you gathered that from reading either of his posts. I certainly didn't.

In all your pondering about overemphasizing wins in sports, have you ever considered that the reason you compete is to win?

I agree with rgncjn12...I don't care how many nice guys and smart guys the coaches put on the teams, if they don't win, then something needs to change. I'm certainly not saying that I would want a team full of thugs who are criminals and have tutors take tests for them, but there are plenty of programs out there who have players that get the job done on the street, in the classroom, AND on the field/court. I think he gave a very good example in asking about Bustle. I'd like to hear your take on him, as well.

Like RC12 said, those off the field things can only get a program so far. The wins are the structure (foundation, studs, nails) of the program. Those other things are like the bricks, they're only there to make it look good. _

You are right. Why is it one or the other? I completely agree that we emphasize high academic standards and great character in our student-athletes... but does this automatically mean we have to sacrifice "winning"? If a coach cannot find a way to do both... I'm sorry... he is going to have to find another line of work. A state school with our academic standards should not be in a position that a large number of student-athletes will not be available and capable of achieving at both academics/character and sports... in our conference.

Where are we in such a battle right now, in basketball, over this issue? Coach Lee has done a really good job in preaching and supporting academics and character... but he is going to have to convert that into a winning basketball program... or he is out. That is not my rule... that is THE rule.

Now, if someone is arguing that we blow off character/academics and solely focus on wins... that is the other end of the spectrum that is also not allowable. Does this make sense to others? Are we not looking for the right balance of both?

[rgncjn12]

_ There is no reason why you can't do BOTH. I agree with you that, sooner or later, coaches are judged by wins and losses. And, I have no problem with that.

But Fun is also correct. And, with the APR and graduation rates gettting more and more scrutiny, you'd better have some of those choir boys in order to balance out the rough edge guys.

It's called winning the right way. The downside is, it takes longer to accomplish....especially if your predecessor didn't feel the same way. (Case in point....Lee vs. Evans and Bustle vs. Baldwin.)

But it CAN be accomplished............and the right way is the way it should be done.

But, 12, you also have to win to stay employed. Both Bustle and Lee need to accomplish that part of it soon. _

BOP,

I agree it takes both also. I think Robicheaux and the baseball team is a great example of how I believe is the correct way to go about it. I think the Lotief's and softball is more of how Fun sees it.

Like the old saying, there is my side, your side, and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I think Lee is doing a better job balancing the two aspects then Bustle, but Bustle was in a much tougher spot to start. I thought this year would be the year it all clicked for football, but the schedule setup is gonna make it tough. I think whatever happens Bustle should get next year.

GEAUX UL!

BOP can you dispell/substantiate this rumor: Will Long is no longer on the baseball team?

[Just1More]

_ There is no reason why you can't do BOTH. I agree with you that, sooner or later, coaches are judged by wins and losses. And, I have no problem with that.

But Fun is also correct. And, with the APR and graduation rates gettting more and more scrutiny, you'd better have some of those choir boys in order to balance out the rough edge guys.

It's called winning the right way. The downside is, it takes longer to accomplish....especially if your predecessor didn't feel the same way. (Case in point....Lee vs. Evans and Bustle vs. Baldwin.)

But it CAN be accomplished............and the right way is the way it should be done.

But, 12, you also have to win to stay employed. Both Bustle and Lee need to accomplish that part of it soon. _

I agree with this totally. Both Lee and Bustle have accomplished much on the elevation of character and good student-athletes... they have both reached a point on their respective coaching timelines that is going to require some win production... they know it as much as anyone. It is the nature of their profession.

Regardless of these two individuals' fate, there is no way I would argue that we should ever revert to sacrificing solid character student-athletes for winning. I not only believe in doing it the right way... I believe when it finally starts to click on the field and on the court, the system starts to feed itself more of the same. However, a great character coach may exist that cannot also find the way to win. He cannot be given a free ride for his exceptional personality, likeability, and stewardship over young men. Eventually, he has to pay the piper... or go volunteer at the YMCA.

The idea, however, that you either have a thug program or an angelic program is the aggravating element of many of the proposed arguments. You demand good character, you recruit on that basis, you try to weed out the non-compliants... but, you figure out how to win.

[rgncjn12]

The idea, however, that you either have a thug program or an angelic program is the aggravating element of many of the proposed arguments. You demand good character, you recruit on that basis, you try to weed out the non-compliants... but, you figure out how to win. _

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!

Lee seems to be figuring out how to win a little better then Bustle. I hope Bustle wins some games this year.

GEAUX UL!

[Turbine]

Either/OR is a red herring.

You have to demand both in moderation. You then jump for joy , when either exceeds a moderate level of success.

The thing is, . . . neither can carry the other.

jmo
igeaux.mobi

[Cajunsmike]

There is no reason why you can't do BOTH. I agree with you that, sooner or later, coaches are judged by wins and losses. And, I have no problem with that.

But Fun is also correct. And, with the APR and graduation rates gettting more and more scrutiny, you'd better have some of those choir boys in order to balance out the rough edge guys.

It's called winning the right way. The downside is, it takes longer to accomplish....especially if your predecessor didn't feel the same way. (Case in point....Lee vs. Evans and Bustle vs. Baldwin.)

But it CAN be accomplished............and the right way is the way it should be done.

But, 12, you also have to win to stay employed. Both Bustle and Lee need to accomplish that part of it soon.

Jay, can you define your interpretation of "soon". Is it 2008-09 or does it go beyond that.

[Cajunsmike]

Let's stick to the topic.

In athletics, you would choose wins over character. Am I correct?

Joe, you talk about "community" a lot. In the ideal world, the community would support our programs to a greater degree because they represent us. You, I, and most others on this forum do that very thing. However there are not enough of us. Most fans want to be entertained and we have not done a good enough job of that. Way to improve that is to get the businesses of the area more involved financially. That will improve recruiting which will result in more wins. The overall "community" will then join in. The real world and the ideal world are two different things.

[BirdofParadise]

_ Jay, can you define your interpretation of "soon". Is it 2008-09 or does it go beyond that. _

I don't have the answer to that. My definition of soon, your definition of soon and the ones who make the decisions definitions of soon can be the same, or they can be different.

Coach lee just signed a two year extension. It's pretty obvious to me that he will be given that opportunity.

Coach Bustle's contract runs through the 2010 season. That will be a factor in any decision that is made.

But, when it all comes down, the only definition of soon that matters is David Walker's and Scott Farmers.

[Kal]

_ I agree with this totally. Both Lee and Bustle have accomplished much on the elevation of character and good student-athletes... they have both reached a point on their respective coaching timelines that is going to require some win production... they know it as much as anyone. It is the nature of their profession.

Regardless of these two individuals' fate, there is no way I would argue that we should ever revert to sacrificing solid character student-athletes for winning. I not only believe in doing it the right way... I believe when it finally starts to click on the field and on the court, the system starts to feed itself more of the same. However, a great character coach may exist that cannot also find the way to win. He cannot be given a free ride for his exceptional personality, likeability, and stewardship over young men. Eventually, he has to pay the piper... or go volunteer at the YMCA.

The idea, however, that you either have a thug program or an angelic program is the aggravating element of many of the proposed arguments. You demand good character, you recruit on that basis, you try to weed out the non-compliants... but, you figure out how to win. _

I agree with this about Bustle. We can't imagine the shape the program was in when he took over, and he has done alot for this university's program. He may not be getting the wins, but look at the improvements under his tenure. Facilities are now some of the best in conference and the region. Unfortunately the wins just aren't coming. I respect the man and am so very thankful for all that he has done, but I just feel he's taken us about as far as he can. It's time for us to board another bus that can take us to the next destination on our map.

But when did Robert's job come into question? I remember the talks two years ago, but after the changes we saw last season, I was under the impression that most of us were on board. We were all so excited for that team and we thought they achieved a hell of alot. They had a desire and a fire in them that we hadn't seen in a long time. We all saw the turnaround and don't deny it. The season hasn't even started yet and some of you are saying he better get us some wins? Where's the faith? After that young team I saw last year ended their season, I knew that this upcoming season was going to be magic. Did you all forget how exciting it was to be in the cajundome last year? This team will win. This team is talented, it's deep, and it has got a hell of alot of intensity. Last season was a positive season, there is no reason to be talking about Robert's job until we see otherwise. He wanted this program to win the right way. He's built a good foundation it started paying off last season. This season will see even bigger returns. Quote me.