Louisiana Higher Education Funding

[AstroCajun]

Hammer58: LSU had been pushing to raise academic standards and decrease enrollment for some time prior to TOPS. As far as tuition increases, are you sure? LSU has implemented academic fees rather than drastically raise tuition due to resistance from the legislature. It still costs less than $1800 for tuition, though we drop another $1800 in "fees". TOPS does not cover the fees since they are implemented without legislative authority (and likely other universities protesting). It appears the end result is that the state's TOPS liability for tuition at UL and LSU is nearly identical. In fact, I would argue TOPS has pushed many quality students from low income households away from LSU.

I was deployed much of the last five years so I probably missed the Tiger Cage deal...I never saw anything about an attempt to acquire public funding. Something else I'd love to have the details on (quick web search found nothing) as the errors in the Gonzales article (last year?) did not go unnoticed over here

I'm not refuting any of these assertions at face, just saying issues like these should be looked into before judgement is passed. LSU suffers alongside UL due to interference from the legislature (i.e. Mark Emmert) and a lack of state funds. Much of the construction and renovations on campus (Union, Alex Box, Tiger Stadium decks, etc..) is a result of more and more private money being used to supplant state funds at "Louisiana State University and Agricultural and Mechanical College" (to answer a post from a while back: yes, the full name is on our diplomas).

Again, I don't have a dog in this one. Though I've done undergrad and am in grad school at LSU, I utilize resources at UL that we don't have (Oral History, Folklore Studies, etc...) and may be in Lafayette full-time come August.

Not to mention following the Cajuns makes basketball enjoyable this year since our men are suffering...is it rock bottom when the trainers have to play in practice due to a lack of healthy bodies?

Cheers

You seem like an alright guy. I'm going to be honest with you, the baiting that goes on between our two schools has gotten very tiresome.

I'm a firm believer that people generally see what they want to see - whether those glasses are vermilion or purple tinted.

But there are some elemental truths -

The education system in this state sucks - particularly when the fair haired child with all the resources and advantages still can't rate better than a Tier III.

And part of the reason why the system sucks is that we have too postgraduate institutions in relation to our populace.

With no real funding (in a zero sum game) it's every school for itself.

Personally, I'm proud that my university has pulled itself up from its bootstraps to build it into what it is today.

And all I've ever asked is that our university be allowed to be the best it can be.

[Zeebart21]

In the immortal words of Norman Tripp, Board of Trustees, FAU:

"When [the state] gave us a university, they didn’t tell us we had to be a second rate university forever. We have the right to make this a world class institution right now. We have a right to bring to this university a full experience. We have the right to become a world class university."

so....leave us the h.eLL alone. You want to help, fine...if not get the heck out of the way.

Z

[Hammer58]

_ Hammer58: LSU had been pushing to raise academic standards and decrease enrollment for some time prior to TOPS. As far as tuition increases, are you sure? LSU has implemented academic fees rather than drastically raise tuition due to resistance from the legislature. It still costs less than $1800 for tuition, though we drop another $1800 in "fees". TOPS does not cover the fees since they are implemented without legislative authority (and likely other universities protesting). It appears the end result is that the state's TOPS liability for tuition at UL and LSU is nearly identical. In fact, I would argue TOPS has pushed many quality students from low income households away from LSU.

I was deployed much of the last five years so I probably missed the Tiger Cage deal...I never saw anything about an attempt to acquire public funding. Something else I'd love to have the details on (quick web search found nothing) as the errors in the Gonzales article (last year?) did not go unnoticed over here

I'm not refuting any of these assertions at face, just saying issues like these should be looked into before judgement is passed. LSU suffers alongside UL due to interference from the legislature (i.e. Mark Emmert) and a lack of state funds. Much of the construction and renovations on campus (Union, Alex Box, Tiger Stadium decks, etc..) is a result of more and more private money being used to supplant state funds at "Louisiana State University and Agricultural and Mechanical College" (to answer a post from a while back: yes, the full name is on our diplomas).

Again, I don't have a dog in this one. Though I've done undergrad and am in grad school at LSU, I utilize resources at UL that we don't have (Oral History, Folklore Studies, etc...) and may be in Lafayette full-time come August.

Not to mention following the Cajuns makes basketball enjoyable this year since our men are suffering...is it rock bottom when the trainers have to play in practice due to a lack of healthy bodies?

Cheers _

The tuition is definitely higher at State than at UL. The last time the public universities went to the legislature to ask for an increase (2-3 years ago) State was allowed to raise its tuition almost double what the other universities were allowed. Also at that time, due to complaints by adminstrators of all the universities regarding having to get legislative approval each time a formula was put in place that would allow the universities to increase tuition up to a certain cap I think in the neighborhood of $500 total within a two year period without specific legislative approval. Again a search of old news archives (sorry google did not turn up anything on the tiger cage) might provide the specifics.

[DaddyCajun]

_ Perhaps somebody would help me out here. I have lurked on this site for some time and see the regular LSU threads. Being both an LSU alum and a Cajun fan due to my local upbringing, I usually dismiss these since there really doesn't seem to be a fence to sit on and I don't have a dog in this "fight". As a taxpayer as well as a donor to both the academic and athletic entities of LSU, I do find comments about state funding/hiring freezes/tiger cages interesting. I'm sure most people know that tiger cages and the like come from private money. What I would like to learn more about is how the state disproportionately funds LSU relative to the other state universities. I've seen this accepted as fact, yet I don't recall ever seeing any documents or links to substantiate these claims and I am unable to find anything through a web search. A nudge in the right direction (not off a cliff) would be much appreciated. _

For one and the list is VERY LOOOONNNNGGGG, is Super Mike!

LSU dominated legislature saw to it that LSU would get Super Mike even after the Systems had voted on NO duplication of programs and were actually chopping programs from other state schools. MILLIONS were spent on Super Mike to try and surpass the USL Computer program which at the time was #3 in the USA.

There is more, much more but this is way old and I must get some sleep.

DaddyCajun

[ljr3721]

Here is the information I believe you are looking for:

http://www.regents.state.la.us/pdfs/...0per%20FTE.pdf

LSU Enrollment for 06-07: 29,925
(source: http://www.lsusystem.lsu.edu/dash/LS...llment%202.pdf )

UL Enrollment for 06-07: 16,303
(source: http://instres.louisiana.edu/FactBoo...tFrameset.html )

LSU Per Student: $6,844
UL Per Student: $4,155

LSU gets 65% more funding per student than UL.

Of course it is not that simple and there are several factors that I am not considering here. But keep in mind that one of those is that tuition is higher at LSU, and that LSU historically has been allowed to raise its tuition while UL, up until recently, has been prevented from doing so. So, the discrepancy is even greater than it appears.

Now, we do not question that overall, LSU is a better academic institution than UL. But does it produce graduates that are 65% better than UL's? We don't think so. Therefore, the state could get a much better value for its money by investing it in a more efficient institution, rather than pouring more and more of it into LSU.

If UL can do so well with so little, imagine if they had funding equal, on a per-student basis, to LSU's?

[Cajun Express]

_ Here is the information I believe you are looking for:

http://www.regents.state.la.us/pdfs/...0per%20FTE.pdf

LSU Enrollment for 06-07: 29,925
(source: http://www.lsusystem.lsu.edu/dash/LS...llment%202.pdf )

UL Enrollment for 06-07: 16,303
(source: http://instres.louisiana.edu/FactBoo...tFrameset.html )

LSU Per Student: $6,844
UL Per Student: $4,155

LSU gets 65% more funding per student than UL.

Of course it is not that simple and there are several factors that I am not considering here. But keep in mind that one of those is that tuition is higher at LSU, and that LSU historically has been allowed to raise its tuition while UL, up until recently, has been prevented from doing so. So, the discrepancy is even greater than it appears.

Now, we do not question that overall, LSU is a better academic institution than UL. But does it produce graduates that are 65% better than UL's? We don't think so. Therefore, the state could get a much better value for its money by investing it in a more efficient institution, rather than pouring more and more of it into LSU.

If UL can do so well with so little, imagine if they had funding equal, on a per-student basis, to LSU's? _

Your numbers are not valid. IMO you cannot count the total because the total represents all colleges within a university, and all post graduate courses as well. Fair on not LSU has far more doctorate programs than UL. They also get far more research grants from Uncle Sam. I think for purpose of undergrad courses you will find that the tuition are very similar. LSU has greater fees, and according to their web site UL has a larger actual tuition for 15 under graduate hours.

[Steve Gossen]

I thought you might be interested in reading this web page:
https://forumeus.com/sh...referrerid=296

From,
Kawlija1

[CrazyEyesGlide]

LSU dominated legislature saw to it that LSU would get Super Mike even after the Systems had voted on NO duplication of programs and were actually chopping programs from other state schools. MILLIONS were spent on Super Mike to try and surpass the USL Computer program which at the time was #3 in the USA.

$3 million was spent on Super Mike since it was built in house. The money came from a $23 million technology grant that went to 5 different universities... And the computer was designed to outclass the entire country, not just UL's. While I agree that duplicating certain specialty programs around the state should be avoided, I don't find this be a good example. The francophone studies department would be a better case study, imo.

[CrazyEyesGlide]

ljr3721:

Those are the types of documents I am looking for, appreciate you posting them. But I think Cajun Express pointed an important caveat to the data. In addition to his comments, it should be noted that LSU's numbers probably includes the medical research center, hospitals, etc...

Kawlija1:

The parable that you provided is a good example of why I started this thread. I know the perception of many is LSU=Goliath, what I would like to find is the data that warrants this perception. I don't get how the state legislature = LSU..."LSU&AM@BR" suffers from them just as much as everyone else. Hell, many in the capitol have not even been to college.

The tuition is definitely higher at State than at UL.

If you don't mind, show me. I checked that out before my post to confirm what I remember reading when looking into graduate school at both universities. I simply don't see where LSU's tuition is higher...

[CrazyEyesGlide]

Attached is document concerning tuition & fees from the Regent's office. Looks as though LSU(A&M) is about $1,000 more a year than UL.

What the document does not clarify, and I still assert, is that the difference is self-assessed fees that are not covered by TOPS.

Of note:

LSU (A&M) 4,645.40
Lousiana Tech 4,548.00
UNO 3,954.00
Southern (BR) 3,666.00
Northwestern 3,656.60
Grambling 3,622.00
Nicholls 3,594.50
UL (Monroe) 3,500.90
UL (Lafayette) 3,429.70

But keep in mind that one of those is that tuition is higher at LSU, and that LSU historically has been allowed to raise its tuition while UL, up until recently, has been prevented from doing so.

UL's tuition is cheaper than five other universities in the same system. Is the legislature's doing???

2007-2008 Tuition and Fees