Louisiana Higher Education Funding

[CrazyEyesGlide]

Perhaps somebody would help me out here. I have lurked on this site for some time and see the regular LSU threads. Being both an LSU alum and a Cajun fan due to my local upbringing, I usually dismiss these since there really doesn't seem to be a fence to sit on and I don't have a dog in this "fight". As a taxpayer as well as a donor to both the academic and athletic entities of LSU, I do find comments about state funding/hiring freezes/tiger cages interesting. I'm sure most people know that tiger cages and the like come from private money. What I would like to learn more about is how the state disproportionately funds LSU relative to the other state universities. I've seen this accepted as fact, yet I don't recall ever seeing any documents or links to substantiate these claims and I am unable to find anything through a web search. A nudge in the right direction (not off a cliff) would be much appreciated.

[cajunhawk]

LSU gets preferential treatment from the state. Why has no other university been able to seperate themselves from the pack and challenge LSU as the _______? 2 and 2 make 4. It takes a blind samurai to figure this one out. Since your an LSU alum, I can see how your just a bit slow. No worries mate, its ok, you have two worthless crystal footballs to rest your sleepy head on.

[CrazyEyesGlide]

"LSU gets preferential treatment from the state."

That is a very broad assertion. If true, it must be evident in the funding figures or some other statistical data available. I love my alma mater, but if LSU is getting $10,000 per student and every other school is getting $4,000 that is a problem that even my purple and gold glasses won't hide.

[rhineaux]

_ "LSU gets preferential treatment from the state."

That is a very broad assertion. If true, it must be evident in the funding figures or some other statistical data available. I love my alma mater, but if LSU is getting $10,000 per student and every other school is getting $4,000 that is a problem that even my purple and gold glasses won't hide. _

The information is out there. I know I've seen it here or there. I'd just have to try to come across it again.

One good article to show some evidence of this, and you may have seen it if you've been lurking long enough, was posted in a thread entitled 'The Grifters' late last fall. It was a story from the Advocate (I think) detailing how LSU's French House Renovations was outside of the Top 20 (#23?) on the list of university construction projects. However, by some jesturing and persuasion by LSU'ers, the project jumped all the way to #1 about a day before the funds were actually allocated. Hence, the preferential treatment argument. Not to mention, I don't think its much of a secret that many LSU supporters expect this sort of treatment because they are the "flagship", and this expected treatment is detailed in the breakdown of the Flagship Agenda.

[cajunhawk]

I take it back, your one of the good ones. Any of the normal LSU guys on this site would have taken that bait and a war of words would have started. Im impressed. So now we can get down to normal conversation. This has been going on for years. I graduated in fall of 2005 and I can remember around that time word on the street was that LSU was all up in arms because Blanco was trying to move UNO and Southern over to the UL system. They made such a rukus about it that Blanco backed down and never spoke a word of it. None of this stuff is ever spoken about in print or on TV, but the fact of the matter is there is a huge contingency in Baton Rouge that keeps LSU number one in the state by any means neccessary. Look at it this way, the only way to keep up with the Jones' for LSU is to keep LSU number one in the state, number one by far. Other states have several top notch universities and the governing bodies of these states are pretty split. But in Louisiana its mostly LSU alum and fans that populate the state legislature, state supreme court, high reaches of state government. I think one of the only other states that does this is Arkansas. I believe this state would be better off if they had more than one top notch universities. What do you think?

[Just1More]

Glide, a little more effort in searching publicly available information is the answer. After you obtain this information please come back and share those facts and your source. I am slightly curious about the funding details (but probably not enough to request it of a "fan forum"). But, that is where you are, and you just need to be re-directed. The key in research is to go to sources that once you obtain an answer, you accept it as fact.

The nice thing is that the data is available, and the facts are the facts. Whether right or wrong, the funding differences are what they are. You are right in not taking comments made on this forum, or any other, as evidence to substantiate the funding inequities claim. If you really want to know how the state funding gets distributed and the rules that govern funding to institutions of higher learning, you need to go to the state sources.

You wrote a fairly articulate post, so I am certain you are competent enough to get back on the right path. Take care of yourself Glide, and once you get that info, please come back and share.

[CrazyEyesGlide]

rhineaux: I know of the French House deal. The board moved the project up from priority 12 to priority 1, I believe the Advocate misspoke as I have seen the minutes of that meeting personally. There were several folks here on campus that were upset, not only because of the appearance of a back-room deal, but it also delayed renovation of the Long Field House. My understanding was that LSU essentially swapped each project's fiscal year allocation.

[Hammer58]

_ "LSU gets preferential treatment from the state."

That is a very broad assertion. If true, it must be evident in the funding figures or some other statistical data available. I love my alma mater, but if LSU is getting $10,000 per student and every other school is getting $4,000 that is a problem that even my purple and gold glasses won't hide. _

The comments about the tiger cage was due to the fact that State originally tried to quietly slip the funding for that into a legislative bill so the state would pay for it entirely. Someone in the state government spotted it buried in an unrelated bill and blew the whistle. So the funding was pulled from the bill and it was eventually funded by private money. It made most of the state's news outlets so a search may find the original news articles if you really need to see it from another source.

As for preferential funding, I'm not sure if there is any disparity in the per student funding formula. There may be and there may not be, I just don't know those facts one way or the other. However, one way State gets increased funding over the other public universities in LA is through the backdoor via TOPS. As you know TOPS is a taxpayer funded tuition for qualifying students. The standards for qualification are set by the legislature and they just so happen to have been set lower than State's admission standards so that every State student from LA qualifies for taxpayer supported tuition. Also, the legislature has control over tuition costs at each public university. The legislature has allowed State to raise its tuiton more that the other universities. So since the legislature has set State's tuition much higher than all of the other universities and set the qualifications for TOPS so that all State students can qualify (though some may lose TOPS once in school) more taxpayer dollars go to State on the TOPS program than to other state universities. Its a backdoor method of increased funding for State. And finally, as someone else pointed out the practice of moving capital projects at State such as the French House renovations to the top of the priority list when it was originally down in the 20's in priority rankings behind more desrving projects at other universities using the normal formula or method of prioritizing projects reeks of special treatment. Just a few examples.

[CrazyEyesGlide]

cajunhawk: I vaguely recall the UNO deal (after Katrina?), but I thought it was LSU essentially trying to dump UNO on the UL System? Southern, to my knowledge, has always had a separate system. That, I believe, is an example of why education in this state suffers. Too many 4 year universities instead of a comprehensive community college system along with a population base who, per-capita, is the least educated in the country combined with banana republic politics.

I won't argue against better universities being a good thing for the state, no sane person would (or could). Of course, that is easier said than done.

Just1More: I didn't think I would I find a dissertation on the subject, but folks here seem to be well versed on the matter so I figured somebody might have a web link.

[CrazyEyesGlide]

Hammer58: LSU had been pushing to raise academic standards and decrease enrollment for some time prior to TOPS. As far as tuition increases, are you sure? LSU has implemented academic fees rather than drastically raise tuition due to resistance from the legislature. It still costs less than $1800 for tuition, though we drop another $1800 in "fees". TOPS does not cover the fees since they are implemented without legislative authority (and likely other universities protesting). It appears the end result is that the state's TOPS liability for tuition at UL and LSU is nearly identical. In fact, I would argue TOPS has pushed many quality students from low income households away from LSU.

I was deployed much of the last five years so I probably missed the Tiger Cage deal...I never saw anything about an attempt to acquire public funding. Something else I'd love to have the details on (quick web search found nothing) as the errors in the Gonzales article (last year?) did not go unnoticed over here

I'm not refuting any of these assertions at face, just saying issues like these should be looked into before judgement is passed. LSU suffers alongside UL due to interference from the legislature (i.e. Mark Emmert) and a lack of state funds. Much of the construction and renovations on campus (Union, Alex Box, Tiger Stadium decks, etc..) is a result of more and more private money being used to supplant state funds at "Louisiana State University and Agricultural and Mechanical College" (to answer a post from a while back: yes, the full name is on our diplomas).

Again, I don't have a dog in this one. Though I've done undergrad and am in grad school at LSU, I utilize resources at UL that we don't have (Oral History, Folklore Studies, etc...) and may be in Lafayette full-time come August.

Not to mention following the Cajuns makes basketball enjoyable this year since our men are suffering...is it rock bottom when the trainers have to play in practice due to a lack of healthy bodies?

Cheers

[AstroCajun]

Hammer58: LSU had been pushing to raise academic standards and decrease enrollment for some time prior to TOPS. As far as tuition increases, are you sure? LSU has implemented academic fees rather than drastically raise tuition due to resistance from the legislature. It still costs less than $1800 for tuition, though we drop another $1800 in "fees". TOPS does not cover the fees since they are implemented without legislative authority (and likely other universities protesting). It appears the end result is that the state's TOPS liability for tuition at UL and LSU is nearly identical. In fact, I would argue TOPS has pushed many quality students from low income households away from LSU.

I was deployed much of the last five years so I probably missed the Tiger Cage deal...I never saw anything about an attempt to acquire public funding. Something else I'd love to have the details on (quick web search found nothing) as the errors in the Gonzales article (last year?) did not go unnoticed over here

I'm not refuting any of these assertions at face, just saying issues like these should be looked into before judgement is passed. LSU suffers alongside UL due to interference from the legislature (i.e. Mark Emmert) and a lack of state funds. Much of the construction and renovations on campus (Union, Alex Box, Tiger Stadium decks, etc..) is a result of more and more private money being used to supplant state funds at "Louisiana State University and Agricultural and Mechanical College" (to answer a post from a while back: yes, the full name is on our diplomas).

Again, I don't have a dog in this one. Though I've done undergrad and am in grad school at LSU, I utilize resources at UL that we don't have (Oral History, Folklore Studies, etc...) and may be in Lafayette full-time come August.

Not to mention following the Cajuns makes basketball enjoyable this year since our men are suffering...is it rock bottom when the trainers have to play in practice due to a lack of healthy bodies?

Cheers

You seem like an alright guy. I'm going to be honest with you, the baiting that goes on between our two schools has gotten very tiresome.

I'm a firm believer that people generally see what they want to see - whether those glasses are vermilion or purple tinted.

But there are some elemental truths -

The education system in this state sucks - particularly when the fair haired child with all the resources and advantages still can't rate better than a Tier III.

And part of the reason why the system sucks is that we have too postgraduate institutions in relation to our populace.

With no real funding (in a zero sum game) it's every school for itself.

Personally, I'm proud that my university has pulled itself up from its bootstraps to build it into what it is today.

And all I've ever asked is that our university be allowed to be the best it can be.

[Zeebart21]

In the immortal words of Norman Tripp, Board of Trustees, FAU:

"When [the state] gave us a university, they didn’t tell us we had to be a second rate university forever. We have the right to make this a world class institution right now. We have a right to bring to this university a full experience. We have the right to become a world class university."

so....leave us the h.eLL alone. You want to help, fine...if not get the heck out of the way.

Z