Louisiana Higher Education Funding

[Hammer58]

_ Hammer58: LSU had been pushing to raise academic standards and decrease enrollment for some time prior to TOPS. As far as tuition increases, are you sure? LSU has implemented academic fees rather than drastically raise tuition due to resistance from the legislature. It still costs less than $1800 for tuition, though we drop another $1800 in "fees". TOPS does not cover the fees since they are implemented without legislative authority (and likely other universities protesting). It appears the end result is that the state's TOPS liability for tuition at UL and LSU is nearly identical. In fact, I would argue TOPS has pushed many quality students from low income households away from LSU.

I was deployed much of the last five years so I probably missed the Tiger Cage deal...I never saw anything about an attempt to acquire public funding. Something else I'd love to have the details on (quick web search found nothing) as the errors in the Gonzales article (last year?) did not go unnoticed over here

I'm not refuting any of these assertions at face, just saying issues like these should be looked into before judgement is passed. LSU suffers alongside UL due to interference from the legislature (i.e. Mark Emmert) and a lack of state funds. Much of the construction and renovations on campus (Union, Alex Box, Tiger Stadium decks, etc..) is a result of more and more private money being used to supplant state funds at "Louisiana State University and Agricultural and Mechanical College" (to answer a post from a while back: yes, the full name is on our diplomas).

Again, I don't have a dog in this one. Though I've done undergrad and am in grad school at LSU, I utilize resources at UL that we don't have (Oral History, Folklore Studies, etc...) and may be in Lafayette full-time come August.

Not to mention following the Cajuns makes basketball enjoyable this year since our men are suffering...is it rock bottom when the trainers have to play in practice due to a lack of healthy bodies?

Cheers _

The tuition is definitely higher at State than at UL. The last time the public universities went to the legislature to ask for an increase (2-3 years ago) State was allowed to raise its tuition almost double what the other universities were allowed. Also at that time, due to complaints by adminstrators of all the universities regarding having to get legislative approval each time a formula was put in place that would allow the universities to increase tuition up to a certain cap I think in the neighborhood of $500 total within a two year period without specific legislative approval. Again a search of old news archives (sorry google did not turn up anything on the tiger cage) might provide the specifics.

[DaddyCajun]

_ Perhaps somebody would help me out here. I have lurked on this site for some time and see the regular LSU threads. Being both an LSU alum and a Cajun fan due to my local upbringing, I usually dismiss these since there really doesn't seem to be a fence to sit on and I don't have a dog in this "fight". As a taxpayer as well as a donor to both the academic and athletic entities of LSU, I do find comments about state funding/hiring freezes/tiger cages interesting. I'm sure most people know that tiger cages and the like come from private money. What I would like to learn more about is how the state disproportionately funds LSU relative to the other state universities. I've seen this accepted as fact, yet I don't recall ever seeing any documents or links to substantiate these claims and I am unable to find anything through a web search. A nudge in the right direction (not off a cliff) would be much appreciated. _

For one and the list is VERY LOOOONNNNGGGG, is Super Mike!

LSU dominated legislature saw to it that LSU would get Super Mike even after the Systems had voted on NO duplication of programs and were actually chopping programs from other state schools. MILLIONS were spent on Super Mike to try and surpass the USL Computer program which at the time was #3 in the USA.

There is more, much more but this is way old and I must get some sleep.

DaddyCajun

[ljr3721]

Here is the information I believe you are looking for:

http://www.regents.state.la.us/pdfs/...0per%20FTE.pdf

LSU Enrollment for 06-07: 29,925
(source: http://www.lsusystem.lsu.edu/dash/LS...llment%202.pdf )

UL Enrollment for 06-07: 16,303
(source: http://instres.louisiana.edu/FactBoo...tFrameset.html )

LSU Per Student: $6,844
UL Per Student: $4,155

LSU gets 65% more funding per student than UL.

Of course it is not that simple and there are several factors that I am not considering here. But keep in mind that one of those is that tuition is higher at LSU, and that LSU historically has been allowed to raise its tuition while UL, up until recently, has been prevented from doing so. So, the discrepancy is even greater than it appears.

Now, we do not question that overall, LSU is a better academic institution than UL. But does it produce graduates that are 65% better than UL's? We don't think so. Therefore, the state could get a much better value for its money by investing it in a more efficient institution, rather than pouring more and more of it into LSU.

If UL can do so well with so little, imagine if they had funding equal, on a per-student basis, to LSU's?

[Cajun Express]

_ Here is the information I believe you are looking for:

http://www.regents.state.la.us/pdfs/...0per%20FTE.pdf

LSU Enrollment for 06-07: 29,925
(source: http://www.lsusystem.lsu.edu/dash/LS...llment%202.pdf )

UL Enrollment for 06-07: 16,303
(source: http://instres.louisiana.edu/FactBoo...tFrameset.html )

LSU Per Student: $6,844
UL Per Student: $4,155

LSU gets 65% more funding per student than UL.

Of course it is not that simple and there are several factors that I am not considering here. But keep in mind that one of those is that tuition is higher at LSU, and that LSU historically has been allowed to raise its tuition while UL, up until recently, has been prevented from doing so. So, the discrepancy is even greater than it appears.

Now, we do not question that overall, LSU is a better academic institution than UL. But does it produce graduates that are 65% better than UL's? We don't think so. Therefore, the state could get a much better value for its money by investing it in a more efficient institution, rather than pouring more and more of it into LSU.

If UL can do so well with so little, imagine if they had funding equal, on a per-student basis, to LSU's? _

Your numbers are not valid. IMO you cannot count the total because the total represents all colleges within a university, and all post graduate courses as well. Fair on not LSU has far more doctorate programs than UL. They also get far more research grants from Uncle Sam. I think for purpose of undergrad courses you will find that the tuition are very similar. LSU has greater fees, and according to their web site UL has a larger actual tuition for 15 under graduate hours.

[Steve Gossen]

I thought you might be interested in reading this web page:
https://forumeus.com/sh...referrerid=296

From,
Kawlija1

[CrazyEyesGlide]

LSU dominated legislature saw to it that LSU would get Super Mike even after the Systems had voted on NO duplication of programs and were actually chopping programs from other state schools. MILLIONS were spent on Super Mike to try and surpass the USL Computer program which at the time was #3 in the USA.

$3 million was spent on Super Mike since it was built in house. The money came from a $23 million technology grant that went to 5 different universities... And the computer was designed to outclass the entire country, not just UL's. While I agree that duplicating certain specialty programs around the state should be avoided, I don't find this be a good example. The francophone studies department would be a better case study, imo.

[CrazyEyesGlide]

ljr3721:

Those are the types of documents I am looking for, appreciate you posting them. But I think Cajun Express pointed an important caveat to the data. In addition to his comments, it should be noted that LSU's numbers probably includes the medical research center, hospitals, etc...

Kawlija1:

The parable that you provided is a good example of why I started this thread. I know the perception of many is LSU=Goliath, what I would like to find is the data that warrants this perception. I don't get how the state legislature = LSU..."LSU&AM@BR" suffers from them just as much as everyone else. Hell, many in the capitol have not even been to college.

The tuition is definitely higher at State than at UL.

If you don't mind, show me. I checked that out before my post to confirm what I remember reading when looking into graduate school at both universities. I simply don't see where LSU's tuition is higher...

[CrazyEyesGlide]

Attached is document concerning tuition & fees from the Regent's office. Looks as though LSU(A&M) is about $1,000 more a year than UL.

What the document does not clarify, and I still assert, is that the difference is self-assessed fees that are not covered by TOPS.

Of note:

LSU (A&M) 4,645.40
Lousiana Tech 4,548.00
UNO 3,954.00
Southern (BR) 3,666.00
Northwestern 3,656.60
Grambling 3,622.00
Nicholls 3,594.50
UL (Monroe) 3,500.90
UL (Lafayette) 3,429.70

But keep in mind that one of those is that tuition is higher at LSU, and that LSU historically has been allowed to raise its tuition while UL, up until recently, has been prevented from doing so.

UL's tuition is cheaper than five other universities in the same system. Is the legislature's doing???

2007-2008 Tuition and Fees

[Hammer58]

_ ljr3721:

Those are the types of documents I am looking for, appreciate you posting them. But I think Cajun Express pointed an important caveat to the data. In addition to his comments, it should be noted that LSU's numbers probably includes the medical research center, hospitals, etc...

Kawlija1:

The parable that you provided is a good example of why I started this thread. I know the perception of many is LSU=Goliath, what I would like to find is the data that warrants this perception. I don't get how the state legislature = LSU..."LSU&AM@BR" suffers from them just as much as everyone else. Hell, many in the capitol have not even been to college.



If you don't mind, show me. I checked that out before my post to confirm what I remember reading when looking into graduate school at both universities. I simply don't see where LSU's tuition is higher... _

Here is what I found on the recent "streamlining " of the legislative approval process for setting or raising tuition. Note that State gets to set their tuition based on a percentage of the average at "flagship" institutions while everyone else has to base theirs on a percentage of the SREB average. Since the SREB average will factor in a number of smaller universities and colleges and the"flagship" averages will be a smaller group with normally higher tuitions I thin it is safe to assume even without finding the exact figures that the increases allowed for State will be higher than what UL and the other LA universities will be allowed to charge. The system is set up to allow State to charge more money for tuition thus getting more taxpayer money through TOPS.

http://www.regents.state.la.us/pdfs/...tg04-27-05.pdf

[Just1More]

Glide, with this blessed ability to both debate every point provided, render some facts and opinions of your own, with skillful prose, could you not find it within yourself to research this subject? If you failed on Google, then go to the library and start researching. This is a Cajun fan forum, packed with sentiment of its own. This is a divisive topic, regardless if presented in ernest. You are cleverly masking your sentiment on this topic, but I do not believe you are a neutral inquisitor.

You know in your heart of hearts that there is a disparity in the past and present funding between LSU, UL, and other state institutions. Do you believe that the tooth fairy built LSU and simply overlooked everyone else? The state not only singled out greater funding, but special cased rules to support the flagship status of LSU. Absolutely do not take my word for it or anyone else on here... go research it if you truthfully really care.

Any mention of private funding supporting/building anything at LSU has to be qualified. LSU is a public institution, first. If you first build a much bigger and elaborate theme park with public funds, it stands to reason that you would attract all the kids, their parents and relatives. Eventually, you can start counting the tickets at the door as private donations, start building community sentiment and presto... private funds start coming in for everything that can be made private. That is the basis for what we see at LSU. A focused channeling of public funds for many years, a well orchestrated building of sentiment in the process (mostly thru athletics) and THEN the storm effect of private funds. You put the public and private funding engine together and you get a monsterous result... LSU.

This also goes for research funding and grants. If I get state funds to build a testing lab, then go out and market a partnership with private industry for use of my lab, faculty, students, etc... in come the private research funds. I think is highly disingenuous to then tell everyone that "we are funding this lab thru large private grants and are not asking the state for a penny"... snicker snicker chuckle chuckle.

Most LSU friends of mine completely agree with me. Of course, they are the rational ones. I only find an occasional ignoramous that does not (they prove ignoramous in many other ways as well). I am not one who argues that it isn't the right of the state to do so, or that it must be discontinued, or anything of the sort. The king has spoken and the troops are lined up behind him. My request is that when UL is making strides or launching its own initiatives, stay out of it.

I am sick and tired of the low brows that think that the guy who wins the blue ribbon with the fattest pig in this state did not get the greatest help. We are talking about PUBLIC institutions. It ain't much to beat your chest about.

You are not going to find the bible on funding on this forum or on any simple link. That is by design as well. You are going to have to go dig it up yourself. Have you shown up on the LSU fan forums to find out how incredibly informed these individuals are on this subject? And no, they do not care or argue about who's getting the line share of the cheese... they can't swallow fast enough to get a word out edge-wise. And I do not have any sympathy for the likes of "we are hurting too... we needed 100 million for a new complex and the state has only granted 75 million and has delayed the gold plating by another 6 months... we're hurting too".

Write a letter to the Advocate and ask a staff researcher to provide you with the funding methodology in this state for higher institutions starting from the beginning. But please ask them to spare you of the private funding follow-ups. Back to the theme park... you can't take credit for building a private monster roller coaster that was originally funded by tickets sold on 8 prior publically funded roller coasters. A 6th grader understands that concept.

[Hammer58]

_ Your numbers are not valid. IMO you cannot count the total because the total represents all colleges within a university, and all post graduate courses as well. Fair on not LSU has far more doctorate programs than UL. They also get far more research grants from Uncle Sam. I think for purpose of undergrad courses you will find that the tuition are very similar. LSU has greater fees, and according to their web site UL has a larger actual tuition for 15 under graduate hours. _

Here is a report I found from May 2007 from the Public Affairs Research Council of Louisiana. Note the table on page 8 that shows the median annual undegraduate tuition fand fees or each institution. State charges $4,316 while UL charges $3.258 (lower than many of the lower ranked institutions). Also, the reports states that following the Regents' plan to allow State to raise their tuition to 93% of the flaghsip average will require an increase in taxpayer funding of more than $14 milion for TOPS while raising the other instituitons to 93% of the SREB average would require only $10.6 million. While this has not been implemetned as of May 2007 it continues the practice of State receiveing more taxpayer funding.

http://www.la-par.org/Publications/P...ion%202007.pdf

[Turbine]

The problem goes back to the 1920's 30's and 40's when UL had the lowest funding per student in the state!

You still see the hamstring effects of that today.

ps I know nothing of todays situation.