UL Athlete Andrew Toney

[Zeebart21]

Thanks for the insight ... he must have been a pretty good guy.

Why are you bitter?

Z

[USL1970]

Why are you bitter?

Z

I am interested in Rodrigue's question that you copied/pasted, and an answer from the reseachers & movie makers if they have a perspective.

I was around back then, and it was a black eye for the university. Maybe some new information has surfaced in their research or possibly they interviewed Goldstein.

What do you have to offer on this subject?

[douglas]

i haven't reached out to Manny but i'm not done yet, the whole project moves in a liquid sense, due to the extremely complicated grey nature of everything. as far as Phillip goes i have asked him several times as well as tom cox has to talk in person but with no response.

the one thing that confuses me is the idea that the program completely denies helping kids out with things-they don't and never have denied that and neither will i. The notion of a SMU style payroll from people is pretty off base, all you have to do is look at the vehicles kids drove in college -Bo crappy toyota, roy crappy duece and a half with no ac and one working door, marvin and payton shared a corvair that they had to tie the back door shut and so forth. If Manny was the "Bag Man" the bag was more like a marble pouch with money that jingles instead of folds. Besides my taste in vehicles if you look at the final allegations after the bunk one's are tossed out the "pay for play" style charges are not at all what people think.

the main thing i have to consider that a lot of people don't get is every interview costs money-out of towners normally run about 1k a pop after hotels, shooting locations, food etc. So the info i get out of it has to be worth it and i don't think Manny saying the same thing that tom cox says is worth 1k-sorry phillip.

[douglas]

so my perspective? if you think this story and life itself are black or white issues you are wrong and have never been in the position where people depend on you for something. I am not trying to "whitewash" anyone or anything, i don't think the book covered the material as it should and i understand why but don't fully agree.

It is time people stop counting violations and ask instead "what did they violate and why?", i also ask people to look at USL's actions and compare them to what is being debated on the ncaa floor right now-allowances for players, travel to and from home and the definition of amateurism itself.

i know no matter what i do i will have people who love it and people who hate it and that's how you know you are doing something right

[RaginFan2]

so my perspective? if you think this story and life itself are black or white issues you are wrong and have never been in the position where people depend on you for something. I am not trying to "whitewash" anyone or anything, i don't think the book covered the material as it should and i understand why but don't fully agree.

It is time people stop counting violations and ask instead "what did they violate and why?", i also ask people to look at USL's actions and compare them to what is being debated on the ncaa floor right now-allowances for players, travel to and from home and the definition of amateurism itself.

i know no matter what i do i will have people who love it and people who hate it and that's how you know you are doing something right

You have that absolutely right, Douglas! Keep up the good work!

[GetTheFacts1st]

DOuglas wrote, "from what i am told elvin ivory would have takin both of their lunch money at the same time"

U were told wrong

[GetTheFacts1st]

Douglas wrote, " i haven't reached out to Manny but i'm not done yet."

You mean the nimble nut who threw us under the bus?

[douglas]

DOuglas wrote, "from what i am told elvin ivory would have takin both of their lunch money at the same time"

U were told wrong

different times, different games. not hating on toney,bo, or fogle all were killer players.

[USL1970]

so my perspective? if you think this story and life itself are black or white issues you are wrong and have never been in the position where people depend on you for something. I am not trying to "whitewash" anyone or anything, i don't think the book covered the material as it should and i understand why but don't fully agree.

It is time people stop counting violations and ask instead "what did they violate and why?", i also ask people to look at USL's actions and compare them to what is being debated on the ncaa floor right now-allowances for players, travel to and from home and the definition of amateurism itself.

i know no matter what i do i will have people who love it and people who hate it and that's how you know you are doing something right

Thank you for the honest response and wish you success on your project. If it was not difficult, then it would not be worth doing. You have chosen an interesting subject.

[Turbine]

The successful UL recruiting angles of the late 60's I am reminded of are these . . .

1) UL had already established a winning tradition. UL = Player magnet

2) The demand for the players UL recruited was nothing compared to what it would be today. UL = Player magnet.

And 3rd the former Wall Street wiz kid who resorts to desparate measures later in his career, does not meam he cheated in his early successes.

Trying to maintain a recruiting reputation (established in the late 60's) in a late 70's (a much much tighter market) could easily have "lead" to job preservation cheating.