UL Coach (1957-73) Beryl Shipley

[CroCajun1003]

And the question we are all debating is, was it worth it?

There is no clear answer, and that is a line in the sand about much of this debate._

I disagree.

I think the question is regarding the legacy of Shipley.

He is still widely considered by much of the community the greedy guilty coach that brought down a program.

Slam Dunked and Tom Shipley's comments paint him as an innocent bystander and a bit of a civil rights hero.

The Sports Illustrated article is somewhere in between.

I think you are right when you say that the recruitment of the black athletes was more about winning games than breaking barriers, but you have to admit that whatever the motives were, it took great courage to go against the segregationists. For that, I think Shipley deserves everyones respect.

I think with the information we have available to us now, it is becoming harder and harder to say that the university did not make Shipley the scapegoat. It is also clear that Dr. A and Shipley's relationship was less than healthy.

That being said...to call Shipley an innocent victim is an overstatement. He did admittedly break many rules. He recruited players that he knew would not be able to afford living on their own and financially helped them along the way. I can't argue against that.

However, in this case, I think Shipley was a victim of a broken system. The way the system was set up then, and in many ways to this day, makes it very hard for poor college athletes to live. Shipley gave opportunities to kids who otherwise would not have been able to receive a college education.

Was it illegal? Yes. Was it malicious in nature? I don't know. I understand that these kids were outstanding players and won many games for the team, but at the end of the day, they were still kids. They still had to eat. They still had to find ways to get to practice.

I'm very interested to see "Lights Out In Blackham"'s take on the entire situation and see how the community 40 years later responds. Most of the people involved or interested in this story already have a vested interest one way or another. Therefore their interpretations of the events are always biased.

I want to see reaction when the casual fans see the documentary. The kids in school who never heard of Coach Shipley. The reaction to the documentary will most likely have the final say regarding Shipley's legacy.

[Turbine]

_ Shipley took the revolutionary approach which you suggest, and we all know the results and aftermath at USL. It was a disaster for the university, but maybe necessary at that time.

Reasons aside, punishment aside, I think the whole ordeal is a forever feather (a positive) in the University of Louisiana cap.

[USL1970]

I'm very interested to see "Lights Out In Blackham"'s take on the entire situation and see how the community 40 years later responds. Most of the people involved or interested in this story already have a vested interest one way or another. Therefore their interpretations of the events are always biased.

I want to see reaction when the casual fans see the documentary. The kids in school who never heard of Coach Shipley. The reaction to the documentary will most likely have the final say regarding Shipley's legacy. _

Very insightful post.

I hope the documentary brings new and relevant information to light. If they look at Shipley's entire career, especially before 1965, he may be able to overcome the "death penalty" since so many people contributed to that problem.

There was plenty of excitement in Blackham in the late 50's and early 60's. I can still remember as a kid watching Bill McHorris play in Blackham for SLI. He is my all-time favorite, even surpassing, Lamar, and Toney. I believe he scored over forty points one night, and that was almost unheard of in those days of low scoring games and no dunks.

[USL1970]

_ Reasons aside, punishment aside, I think the whole ordeal is a forever feather (a positive) in the University of Louisiana cap. _

You may be right. Time will tell.

I've had enough of this topic.

I might go to the women's softball thread.

[douglas]

your in luck then mchorris is on our interview list

[USL1970]

_ This makes no sense, you don't curry favor with racists/segregationists by laying out a detailed plan for integration. Racists and segregationists are against integration by definition. These people would simply not be on board, if they were on board, then they were not racists or segregationists.

Early integration worked at UL for two reasons: (1) the determination and will of the first black students to pioneer that change; (2) there was not a lot of media attention.

Due to the lack of media attention, many segregationists did not have a platform to voice their opposition. I did a research project on UL integration during my time there. In fact, a prominent segregationist politician was asked to leave before speaking at EK Long gym. Racists and segregationists did not support the integration of UL in the 50s nor did the political forces support integration of the basketball team in the early/mid 60's.

The race relations element was extremely present and played a prominent role in the death penalty that was given by the NCAA. I concur with your point that it could not have happened without rule breaking, but the original rule breaking definitely did not occur in a vacuum. _

"That the integration of SLI occurred relatively smoothly is a matter of record. What is less clear are the reasons why SLI was spared the divisive incidents common on other southern campuses during this period."

"Some credit the smooth transition to President Joel Fletcher, who avoided publicity, encouraged cooperation, and refused to comment on the court decision. Fletcher also refused to record students’ race so that he had no figures to release on the number of black students attending SLI during the transition years."

"When it became apparent that desegregation would take place, Fletcher toured the state, calling on influential citizens to assist in making the transition a smooth one. Faculty interviewed by the USL Oral History Project reported that the college established a campus human relations council of faculty and students to address problems black students faced and to work toward solutions."
Quote from UL Press Release 2004 on academic integration.

Also, Michael Wade, History Professor at Appalachian State, was a reference in the book "Slam Dunked", and the article can be found of the on internet. This is a scholarly account with references.

My question or point was that if athletic integration would have had a plan, then maybe it would have gone better. In 1954, many influencial people were segregationist or racists, especially in north Louisiana, and Fletcher had to deal with them.

Thanks for your comments and results of your personal research will at SLI.

Did you know that the Southwestern sign over the Long Gymnasium was originally used as a gateway entrance to the college, but citizens complained it looked like an entrance to a night club, so Fletcher moved the sign to the gymnasium.

[Turbine]

Fletcher was Cool Hand Luke. There was a reason they used UL as the test case.

Of course if Shipley had waited for the aid of a court order . . .
igeaux.mobi

[USL1970]

_ Fletcher was Cool Hand Luke. There was a reason they used UL as the test case.

igeaux.mobi _

My dad knew both Fletcher and Rougeou ..."different as night and day." He said:

Fletcher surrounded himself with academics, other college presidents, and his former Ag students. He would pack Blackham with over 8000 for his camelia shows/pageants. Delivered commencemnt addresses at other universities and delivered a famous speech at Harvard about the Acadians.

Rougeou was a quiet president, loved to fish, was very well liked in the alumni groups and the local business community, and helped expand the athletic facilities and football stadium to where they are now, from the not very much on main campus.

When I read "Slam Dunked,"

I pictured Fletcher as the Commandant of West Point scolding cadets in front of Martin Hall, and Rougeou as the General Manager of the Los Angeles Lakers.

I really thought it sorta weird that a university president would go to basketball practices and talk to the coach on the phone as frequently as the book stated.

However, the 60's were a transitional period, and interesting to reflect.

[Zeebart21]

_ Charles Barkley said in his autobiography "Outrageous!", "Toney was amazingly strong, he and Moses were the only ones on the team that could post me up!" Barkley went on to say in the book, "I thought he (Toney) was the best player on the team when I got here. We had Bobby Jones, Moses Malone, and Julius Erving but the only one I was in awe of was Andrew." _

Dude, where have you been? The 2nd half of basketball season was outrageous!!!

Z

[marklapinski]

Does this thread remind anyone else of the G. Love and Special Sauce song?

"Big shots from Mo Cheeks and Moses Malone.
Julius Erving calls Philly his home.
Bobby Jones, Daryl Dawkins, Andy Toney taking threes.
Rocky Balboa comes from south Philly."

...or something like that.

_ The song i was referring to is called "I-76" (i think)

igeaux.mobi _

Thanks guys...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8tq9Va6U68

[marklapinski]

Man, This is an amazing thread. Beryl was a revolutionary. No one would cross racial lines back then in the south when I was growing up in the north.

I've read the stuff on the Lousiana Ragin' Cajun Network on him and was so impressed and had to tell it on the articles I have written on Toney. My only regret is that I could write several long articles on him.

He was bold so many times, bucking the system for doing what he thought was right and what we now know was right, that he sacrificed himself for the cause.

When I have time and I will read every page of this thread and probably appreciate him even more.

[RaginFan2]

_ Man, This is an amazing thread. Beryl was a revolutionary. No one would cross racial lines back then in the south when I was growing up in the north.

I've read the stuff on the Lousiana Ragin' Cajun Network on him and was so impressed and had to tell it on the articles I have written on Toney. My only regret is that I could write several long articles on him.

He was bold so many times, bucking the system for doing what he thought was right and what we now know was right, that he sacrificed himself for the cause.

When I have time and I will read every page of this thread and probably appreciate him even more. _

You need to check out a book called "Slam Dunked". It tells a lot about Coach Shipley and what happened back then.