What factors determine consistency?

What qualifying factors go into helping a player perform good on a consistent basis? and what about a team? and what causes a streak and/or a slump?

How can one SP win 82% of the time he takes the mound and another on the same team with arguably more talent only win 28% of the time? How does an LSU team that was struggling to make their conference tourney turn things around and go on a nation best 21 game win streak? How do the Cajuns sweep a UNO team and shut down a good Troy an South Al team only to go down to that same UNO team in back to back losses?

What is the difference between a college player and a pro? Is it talent, maturity, work ethic, how they prepare...?

I am an opinionated guy and I have my answers to these questions, but I would really like to hear from the rest of you out there and maybe provoke some real thought to these things and how they relate to this years Cajun baseball and to baseball players and teams in general.

Let the discussions begin....

One thing jumps out at me about this years UL baseball team.

1) They did not handle confidence very well.

jmo

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Originally Posted by BleedsTabasco

_ What qualifying factors go into helping a player perform good on a consistent basis? and what about a team? and what causes a streak and/or a slump?

How can one SP win 82% of the time he takes the mound and another on the same team with arguably more talent only win 28% of the time? How does an LSU team that was struggling to make their conference tourney turn things around and go on a nation best 21 game win streak? How do the Cajuns sweep a UNO team and shut down a good Troy an South Al team only to go down to that same UNO team in back to back losses?

What is the difference between a college player and a pro? Is it talent, maturity, work ethic, how they prepare...?

I am an opinionated guy and I have my answers to these questions, but I would really like to hear from the rest of you out there and maybe provoke some real thought to these things and how they relate to this years Cajun baseball and to baseball players and teams in general.

Let the discussions begin.... _

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If we had the answers to all of this, sports would not be so exciting... :-)

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Originally Posted by BleedsTabasco

What qualifying factors go into helping a player perform good on a consistent basis? and what about a team? and what causes a streak and/or a slump?

How can one SP win 82% of the time he takes the mound and another on the same team with arguably more talent only win 28% of the time? How does an LSU team that was struggling to make their conference tourney turn things around and go on a nation best 21 game win streak? How do the Cajuns sweep a UNO team and shut down a good Troy an South Al team only to go down to that same UNO team in back to back losses?

What is the difference between a college player and a pro? Is it talent, maturity, work ethic, how they prepare...?

I am an opinionated guy and I have my answers to these questions, but I would really like to hear from the rest of you out there and maybe provoke some real thought to these things and how they relate to this years Cajun baseball and to baseball players and teams in general.

Let the discussions begin....

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I'll only give a couple of opinions. First baseball is probably more of a mental game than most other competitive sports. If you aren't in the right mental frame you are going to struggle hitting, pitching or fielding. Even when the raw talent is there.

As for LSU that wasn't a big surprise. I posted prior to the season it wouldn't surprise me to see them bomb nor would it surprise me to see them win it all. They had a young team but one of the best freshmen classes in the nation. These guys simple matured enough towards the end of the year to turn their season around.

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Originally Posted by Dad04

Healthy, talented players will get a team way, way, way farther down the road than the very best leadership skills, 7 days a week. Every team has leadership. Some just get lead down the tubes because they simply lack talent.

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Leadership gets Long, Benzel, Fontenot, Hicks to take more ground balls every day until their defense is flawless. Leadership gets guys in the cage enough that they can at least put the ball in play with 2 strikes. Never doubt leadership.

Let's see... healthy, talented yankees haven't done squat in what is it now 8 years? Why do teams in the pros sign 40 year old pitchers? It's because their leadership skills surpass anything a 20 year old fireballer can do.

Ive played ball a while too. And thing that I cant understand, leadership is important, but as a team you hit .241 and your SS makes 18 errors, dont matter how much leadership you have you wont win many games. Dont get me wrong I live in DFW now, so maybe the pitching they were facing was just that great. But just the simple things like catching and hitting seemed like it was missing this year. Not a shot at the players, its hard enough to play a sport and go to school. But it just seems like some of the talent on the team needs to be re-evaulated. Seems like we played alot of Freshman this year, so maybe that has something to do with it. Have to remember we lost two big sticks from last year (Lucroy and Tadford). Dont get me wrong they were leaders, but if you need someone to pick you up after you K or make and E then you shouldnt be playing at that level.

I, as probably most have you, played ball too. I just hack at golf balls now every week, and it's the same as getting better in your short game as is fielding a ground ball. EVERYTHING begins with fundamentals! O yeah, that mental thing too.

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Originally Posted by CajunRage

_ Leadership gets Long, Benzel, Fontenot, Hicks to take more ground balls every day until their defense is flawless. Leadership gets guys in the cage enough that they can at least put the ball in play with 2 strikes. Never doubt leadership.

Let's see... healthy, talented yankees haven't done squat in what is it now 8 years? Why do teams in the pros sign 40 year old pitchers? It's because their leadership skills surpass anything a 20 year old fireballer can do. _

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Baloney. The U.S. Military Academy at West Point is in the leadership business. They have recruited and made leaders for 300 years and done well at it (see WWII, etc.). Why is it that their baseball team is one of the least successful year, after year after year. Their RPI this year is #188 out of 296, actually a very good year for them. Another leadership factory Navy has an RPI of #207 and the other leadership factory Air Force is at #270, out of 296 teams. These teams eat, sleep and pizz leadership, but can't play their way out of a paper bag. Leadeship is so overrated in a teams succes, its not funny. My talented team beats your leaders 99 out 100 times. If leadership really mattered, then Army goes to Omaha every year.

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Originally Posted by Dad04

_ Baloney. The U.S. Military Academy at West Point is in the leadership business. They have recruited and made leaders for 300 years and done well at it (see WWII, etc.). Why is it that their baseball team is one of the least successful year, after year after year. Their RPI this year is #188 out of 296, actually a very good year for them. Another leadership factory Navy has an RPI of #207 and the other leadership factory Air Force is at #270, out of 296 teams. These teams eat, sleep and pizz leadership, but can't play their way out of a paper bag. Leadeship is so overrated in a teams succes, its not funny. My talented team beats your leaders 99 out 100 times. If leadership really mattered, then Army goes to Omaha every year. _

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I need to bookmark this post. For me it all comes down to low tension excellence.

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Originally Posted by Turner

_ I need to bookmark this post. For me it all comes down to low tension excellence. _

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Bingo. Being loose enough to get in "The Zone", playing above your general skill level. Very few zoner's this year, for whatever reason(s). I'll leave that for others.

Nice to see this thread get beyond "fan speak" fourth cousin to "coach speak" :) I was thinking early in the season the freshman would never relax after they saw the seniors get pulled. I was wrong becase they started to relax at the end, just not Saturday. LSU's strength this season was starting and staying with the struggling lineup.

Very well put dad04

Hate to say this, but when you make 3 errors in a game and you have been playing baseball since you were 5 and you need someone to say hay you sucked last game and you need to take some extra ground balls. The type of leadership you speak of should be the coach telling the player that stuff. As, for the yankees atleast half of there team is 30 or over. Jeter, Damon, Giambi, Matsui, Abreau, pitchers Riveria, Pettite, Mussina, they do have some young guns, but if thats not enough leadership to make them win, I dont know what is. One last note if you have a kid throwing 93 in bullpen or you have a kid that can hit 10 hrs in practice and they cant do it in a game. Leadership wont help that. The only thing that can cure that is Boys town lol.

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Originally Posted by Dad04

Baloney. The U.S. Military Academy at West Point is in the leadership business. They have recruited and made leaders for 300 years and done well at it (see WWII, etc.). Why is it that their baseball team is one of the least successful year, after year after year. Their RPI this year is #188 out of 296, actually a very good year for them. Another leadership factory Navy has an RPI of #207 and the other leadership factory Air Force is at #270, out of 296 teams. These teams eat, sleep and pizz leadership, but can't play their way out of a paper bag. Leadeship is so overrated in a teams succes, its not funny. My talented team beats your leaders 99 out 100 times. If leadership really mattered, then Army goes to Omaha every year.

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You have no idea what leadership in sports is. Army does not recruit baseball players. That is why they don't win. I'm not saying put Joe Blow who's 4'11" 100lbs in because he is a good leader. There is a reason Devon Bourque and Justin Morgan got a shot at playing. They were leaders on the field and they could hold there own. They led by example. They were not the best players at their position (hitting + fielding) at any point during their career. This year's team was full of players walking around not hustling. There was no life in the dugout. That is not the coaches job. It is not his team. It's the players' team. They had no heart. I'm not going to say the players name, but I was at Legend's after the game. This player just played his last collegiate and career game. He was less than stellar this season as well as the end of last season. What was he doing? Picking up a gallon of margarita to go party. I played with a lot of heart, and no I did not play past the high school level, but I was still sitting in the dugout an hour after my last game.

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Originally Posted by RustyR

Hate to say this, but when you make 3 errors in a game and you have been playing baseball since you were 5 and you need someone to say hay you sucked last game and you need to take some extra ground balls. The type of leadership you speak of should be the coach telling the player that stuff. As, for the yankees atleast half of there team is 30 or over. Jeter, Damon, Giambi, Matsui, Abreau, pitchers Riveria, Pettite, Mussina, they do have some young guns, but if thats not enough leadership to make them win, I dont know what is. One last note if you have a kid throwing 93 in bullpen or you have a kid that can hit 10 hrs in practice and they cant do it in a game. Leadership wont help that. The only thing that can cure that is Boys town lol.

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The point of the yankees comment was that a ton of all-stars don't ensure a win and this year proves it.

"The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack in will" Vince Lombardi.

I do believe it starts with talent and goes from there. Coach Lombardi knew what it took to win on a consistent basis more than most folks. There must be the will to win on the players part and then the willingness to DO what it takes to win. As usual Dad04 makes some good points as do most of the post in response to this thread. There have been some personal jabs at particular players which is not at all what I was looking for. Players and coaches come and go...what are the FACTORS?

And to some of you out there, if you have never been in combat (which I have not) then please don't insult a combat veteran or Purple Heart recipient by saying you know what its like because you watched Saving Private Ryan! Don't confuse playing with G.I. Joes, R.O.T.C. or even Basic Training with combat.

I hope to hear many more of your thoughts on this topic because I find it intriguiing. Reach deep people and put some thought into it - I know MOST of you can do it!

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Originally Posted by CajunRage

_ Leadership gets Long, Benzel, Fontenot, Hicks to take more ground balls every day until their defense is flawless. Leadership gets guys in the cage enough that they can at least put the ball in play with 2 strikes. Never doubt leadership.

Let's see... healthy, talented yankees haven't done squat in what is it now 8 years? Why do teams in the pros sign 40 year old pitchers? It's because their leadership skills surpass anything a 20 year old fireballer can do. _

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So a leader goes to school 15 hours a week (not to mention some of these players actually have a degree they are trying to get in a tough major). Practice and games 30 hours a week. Then after that he's supossed to go help Long, Benzel, Fontenot, Hicks get more groundballs so their defense is flawless?

1. Sounds like a coaches job to me.
2. With 45 hours a week trying to get themselves ready to play every week so you can drink your pitcher of beer and criticize on a message board where do you suggest they should sacrifice their time? School or getting themselves ready to play?

Also, very bold of you to attack players who have worked their ass off 1, 2, 3, even 4 years on a message board where you can say whatever you want without anyone knowing who you are. Maybe you should spend less time in bars stalking baseball players?

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Originally Posted by cajunbaseball1

So a leader goes to school 15 hours a week (not to mention some of these players actually have a degree they are trying to get in a tough major). Practice and games 30 hours a week. Then after that he's supossed to go help Long, Benzel, Fontenot, Hicks get more groundballs so their defense is flawless?

1. Sounds like a coaches job to me.
2. With 45 hours a week trying to get themselves ready to play every week so you can drink your pitcher of beer and criticize on a message board where do you suggest they should sacrifice their time? School or getting themselves ready to play?

Also, very bold of you to attack players who have worked their ass off 1, 2, 3, even 4 years on a message board where you can say whatever you want without anyone knowing who you are. Maybe you should spend less time in bars stalking baseball players?

Pathetic.

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If they can't handle going to school and playing baseball, they shouldn't play. Being on the team is a privilege, not a right. They are on this team because they are elite players out of high schools across the country. If there is not enough pride to better themselves, then get off the field.

I worked my butt off for four years so that I can buy tickets to games and have a beer with my friends. Stalker? Pathetic? Hi Kettle, my name is Pot.

You know when they win. You know when they don't. That's about it, though. Peace.

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Originally Posted by CajunRage

_ If they can't handle going to school and playing baseball, they shouldn't play. Being on the team is a privilege, not a right. They are on this team because they are elite players out of high schools across the country. If there is not enough pride to better themselves, then get off the field.

I worked my butt off for four years so that I can buy tickets to games and have a beer with my friends. Stalker? Pathetic? Hi Kettle, my name is Pot. _

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Ok how many hours a week is enough pride? 40? 50? 30 is damn near no heart. I don't know how they even won 30 games this year only working on their craft 30 hours a week. How can these guys sleep at night knowing they are letting down people like you getting wasted in the stands, in bars, and at work? Go sit in your bleacher seat, shut your trap and come back when you've worked on your posting and stalking skills 30 hours a week.

"There will always be next year". Is anyone else ever going to get tired of hearing that?

I think it is perfectly acceptable to air your disappointment over a less than stellar year in baseball. Coming up with a "yep, that's the final answer" response is beyond anyone on here, as to why our team floundered this year. Robe probably has a good idea... just a good idea. He does not and will not give that complete explanation to us. It isn't his job to tell us... it is his job to correct it as best he can.

Talking about the individual student athletes on here is not right, beyond looking at the stats and observed play on the field. They cannot for the most part, defend themselves against these character accusations. "Observing" certain behaviors does not tell the story. I don't think it happened with UL this year, but this talk about our players having a bad attitude in the dugout and not being "go getters"... that can be, I said can be, a coaching issue. ORRRRR, it could be team chemistry... a reaction to competition within the group... a dominant group of slackers that brings everyone down... a bunch of head cases... or one dominant one... many things tank a team.

To the contrary, LSU had a seriously loaded team of talent... extremely young guys, but talented... to start this year. It was not expected, but who knew, that they would unfold into a really polished team later in the year. One of Paul Mainieri's good friends (former college baseball player himself), is a friend of mine. He asked Paul "what happened"? Mainieri told him it was as much a surprise to him as everyone else. He said he knew exactly when it happened, but had no idea why. The attitude and confidence of the team turned on a dime. He said he actually knew that from that point forward, it would be extremely difficult to beat LSU... but he really did not know why. He said, "all I know is that I do not want to get in its way".

The UL team had talent. I think it's got some problems with certain talent, without question. But, who in the heck knows why they never really came together as a team. If the coach has done and is doing his job, then it's the personality of the team as a whole that takes over. More than likely, no one, or group of players, came forward as recognizable, respected, and consistent leaders to the group. The coach searches for ways to make that happen... but it is an experiment that he never really has a complete handle on... and selected players who you try to assist into leadership, do not always take it.

It really sucks for fans who want to find a "smoking gun" for our mediocre baseball season... but figuring this out is an art we fans will never perfect. I do believe, however, some of you need to cut out the specific calling out of individual student athletes. I could give a crap how knowledgable you are about baseball, the players, or how many times you inspected their garbage... you do not have enough information, and never will, to be targeting a specific athlete and making complete character evaluations on here. Whether you agree or not... keep it off the board... save it for your buddy during nickel beer wisdom night.

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Originally Posted by Just1More

_ I think it is perfectly acceptable to air your disappointment over a less than stellar year in baseball. Coming up with a "yep, that's the final answer" response is beyond anyone on here, as to why our team floundered this year. Robe probably has a good idea... just a good idea. He does not and will not give that complete explanation to us. It isn't his job to tell us... it is his job to correct it as best he can.

Talking about the individual student athletes on here is not right, beyond looking at the stats and observed play on the field. They cannot for the most part, defend themselves against these character accusations. "Observing" certain behaviors does not tell the story. I don't think it happened with UL this year, but this talk about our players having a bad attitude in the dugout and not being "go getters"... that can be, I said can be, a coaching issue. ORRRRR, it could be team chemistry... a reaction to competition within the group... a dominant group of slackers that brings everyone down... a bunch of head cases... or one dominant one... many things tank a team.

To the contrary, LSU had a seriously loaded team of talent... extremely young guys, but talented... to start this year. It was not expected, but who knew, that they would unfold into a really polished team later in the year. One of Paul Mainieri's good friends (former college baseball player himself), is a friend of mine. He asked Paul "what happened"? Mainieri told him it was as much a surprise to him as everyone else. He said he knew exactly when it happened, but had no idea why. The attitude and confidence of the team turned on a dime. He said he actually knew that from that point forward, it would be extremely difficult to beat LSU... but he really did not know why. He said, "all I know is that I do not want to get in its way".

The UL team had talent. I think it's got some problems with certain talent, without question. But, who in the heck knows why they never really came together as a team. If the coach has done and is doing his job, then it's the personality of the team as a whole that takes over. More than likely, no one, or group of players, came forward as recognizable, respected, and consistent leaders to the group. The coach searches for ways to make that happen... but it is an experiment that he never really has a complete handle on... and selected players who you try to assist into leadership, do not always take it.

It really sucks for fans who want to find a "smoking gun" for our mediocre baseball season... but figuring this out is an art we fans will never perfect. I do believe, however, some of you need to cut out the specific calling out of individual student athletes. I could give a crap how knowledgable you are about baseball, the players, or how many times you inspected their garbage... you do not have enough information, and never will, to be targeting a specific athlete and making complete character evaluations on here. Whether you agree or not... keep it off the board... save it for your buddy during nickel beer wisdom night. _

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EXACTLY! These kids playing AMATEUR baseball work very hard day in and day out. I don't think theres anyway we can come on here and bash them no matter what it may look like to the average fan in the seats. We aren't in their dugout or locker room all year. We don't know what happens. Baseball games are probably 1/4 of the time these guys spend together/workout/practice and most of us make maybe 10 games a year so that by no means qualifies us to criticize their ''lack of heart''.

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Originally Posted by Just1More

_ I think it is perfectly acceptable to air your disappointment over a less than stellar year in baseball. Coming up with a "yep, that's the final answer" response is beyond anyone on here, as to why our team floundered this year. Robe probably has a good idea... just a good idea. He does not and will not give that complete explanation to us. It isn't his job to tell us... it is his job to correct it as best he can.

Talking about the individual student athletes on here is not right, beyond looking at the stats and observed play on the field. They cannot for the most part, defend themselves against these character accusations. "Observing" certain behaviors does not tell the story. I don't think it happened with UL this year, but this talk about our players having a bad attitude in the dugout and not being "go getters"... that can be, I said can be, a coaching issue. ORRRRR, it could be team chemistry... a reaction to competition within the group... a dominant group of slackers that brings everyone down... a bunch of head cases... or one dominant one... many things tank a team.

To the contrary, LSU had a seriously loaded team of talent... extremely young guys, but talented... to start this year. It was not expected, but who knew, that they would unfold into a really polished team later in the year. One of Paul Mainieri's good friends (former college baseball player himself), is a friend of mine. He asked Paul "what happened"? Mainieri told him it was as much a surprise to him as everyone else. He said he knew exactly when it happened, but had no idea why. The attitude and confidence of the team turned on a dime. He said he actually knew that from that point forward, it would be extremely difficult to beat LSU... but he really did not know why. He said, "all I know is that I do not want to get in its way".

The UL team had talent. I think it's got some problems with certain talent, without question. But, who in the heck knows why they never really came together as a team. If the coach has done and is doing his job, then it's the personality of the team as a whole that takes over. More than likely, no one, or group of players, came forward as recognizable, respected, and consistent leaders to the group. The coach searches for ways to make that happen... but it is an experiment that he never really has a complete handle on... and selected players who you try to assist into leadership, do not always take it.

It really sucks for fans who want to find a "smoking gun" for our mediocre baseball season... but figuring this out is an art we fans will never perfect. I do believe, however, some of you need to cut out the specific calling out of individual student athletes. I could give a crap how knowledgable you are about baseball, the players, or how many times you inspected their garbage... you do not have enough information, and never will, to be targeting a specific athlete and making complete character evaluations on here. Whether you agree or not... keep it off the board... save it for your buddy during nickel beer wisdom night. _

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Well Stated!

Excellent post just1more. LSU probably had more new players this year that had been drafted, than any team in the country. Manieri rolled the balls out and they jelled in 30 games. My point about Army was extreme, but to the point that leadership is no cure all.