Small Ball is dead

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Originally Posted by jdebaillon

_ It amazes me how people think the game of baseball changes from one level to another. BASEBALL IS BASEBALL. Small ball is one of the most important parts of the game. LSU's 90s teams were stacked with power hitters, in the big barrel era, playing in a cracker jack box. Arizona State is the only team that has come close to matching those lineups. Those days are over. Small ball is about putting the ball in play and making the defense make a play. It's about moving the runner over with less than 2 outs. Ask the 2000 Clemson team if small ball isn't a part of the game. I hate this new "hitting philosophy" we have. Sure we hit more homeruns and have a better overall average. Go look at what is important. What is our batting average with runners in scoring position? Go even further, how many strikeouts do we have with a runner on 3rd this year? And most of all, look at our record. Pitching, defense, and SMALL BALL wins championships.

Oh and by the way, you've got some brass calling out one of the best coaches in the country like that. _

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Sorry I offended you, and yes, I've got brass.

Small ball is about putting the ball in play, but you have to have the pitching and defense to play for one run, and we don't have it. I don't care what anybody says, in the college game today, with the aluminum bats, you have to score runs. You can't just play for one and hope to shut the other team out.

By the way, in case you haven't been watching, small ball didn't get us to the regional last year and it ain't going to get us there this year. I'm not saying we have to hit every pitch out of the yard, but we have to HIT the ball, and standing still watching the 3rd strike go by isn't hitting the ball.

Go and look at all of the scores around the country week in and week out. You're not seeing 2-1 or 4-3 ball games, teams are scoring runs by the bucket loads. They aren't doing it by small ball. Yes, you have to be able to lay bunts down and move runners over, that is just fundamental baseball, but when you have 0 outs and runners on, why take the bat out of a hitters hands and go for just 1 run when you could get much more? Small ball is a rally killer.

When a team gives up 39 runs in a weekend, small ball needs to stay "dead".:mad:

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Originally Posted by CajunProud

Small ball is a rally killer.

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So are based loaded strikeouts.

On the other hand, look at what putting the ball in play against our defense has done. Small ball can start a rally just as quick as you claim it to kill a rally. We have to manufacture runs because our hitters won't put the ball in play otherwise.

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Originally Posted by jdebaillon

_ So are based loaded strikeouts.

On the other hand, look at what putting the ball in play against our defense has done. Small ball can start a rally just as quick as you claim it to kill a rally. We have to manufacture runs because our hitters won't put the ball in play otherwise. _

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You're right about that. It is a vicious cycle with us. We have trouble putting the ball in play no matter what. Other than John Coker, I can't remember when we had someone who could consistantly lay down a good bunt.

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Originally Posted by CajunKahouna

When a team gives up 39 runs in a weekend, small ball needs to stay "dead".:mad:

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spoken like a man that just had his heart torn apart.. (pun intended)

great to breathe - ey buddy !! . uno weekend .. got plans yet to be at those games?

Wow!... Homer here... this and another thread sure have some infighting over baseball... totally understandable... criticism is warranted... including Coach Robe. But, I cannot, based on my body of work in baseball, compared to Robe's body of work, necessarily call him out on what is happening. The "small ball" argument is kind of lame. It is not about abandoning one for the other. Robe would swing for the fences if he thought the team was seeing the ball well and jumping on pitches. He has been using small ball as a fire starter. Nothing is working. He can't seem to count on anything right now.

It doesn't seem to make sense to stick with small ball when your pitching staff is getting clobbered, but it also makes no sense to have guys swinging away when they haven't proved they can. Small ball gets in the head of the other team, adds errors and other factors into the equation, and once you get that going, your options broaden. I am not saying that it has worked, should work, will work... but Robe is not an idiot and is using everything he can think of to turn this deal around. Sometimes you are hitting on all cylinders, sometimes you are only having to work on a single fouled plug... and sometimes, even for Robe, your engine has froze up. If anyone can get these guys turned around, it will be Coach Robe. Homer out... literally.

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Originally Posted by snote

_ spoken like a man that just had his heart torn apart.. (pun intended)

great to breathe - ey buddy !! . uno weekend .. got plans yet to be at those games? _

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Tkx. Hope to be back for Troy and hope our bullpen comes back sooner!::x::

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Originally Posted by Just1More

_ Wow!... Homer here... this and another thread sure have some infighting over baseball... totally understandable... criticism is warranted... including Coach Robe. But, I cannot, based on my body of work in baseball, compared to Robe's body of work, necessarily call him out on what is happening. The "small ball" argument is kind of lame. It is not about abandoning one for the other. Robe would swing for the fences if he thought the team was seeing the ball well and jumping on pitches. He has been using small ball as a fire starter. Nothing is working. He can't seem to count on anything right now.

It doesn't seem to make sense to stick with small ball when your pitching staff is getting clobbered, but it also makes no sense to have guys swinging away when they haven't proved they can. Small ball gets in the head of the other team, adds errors and other factors into the equation, and once you get that going, your options broaden. I am not saying that it has worked, should work, will work... but Robe is not an idiot and is using everything he can think of to turn this deal around. Sometimes you are hitting on all cylinders, sometimes you are only having to work on a single fouled plug... and sometimes, even for Robe, your engine has froze up. If anyone can get these guys turned around, it will be Coach Robe. Homer out... literally. _

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I hate to disagree, but you are wrong. Robe is a coach who has consistantly taken the bat out of the hands of his hitters. His philosophy is to get to the bullpen by forcing pitch counts high through the medium of taking pitches. Opposing pitchers and their coaches know that we will take until a strike is thrown, so they have no qualms about throwing down the heart of the plate with nothing on the ball both early in the count and on 'hitters counts', because they KNOW we are taking.

It is bad coaching on Robe's part. The only way to develop aggressive, yet disciplined, hitters is to coach them to hit 'mistake' pitches regardless of the count on the hitter, and regardless of pitch count. In the era of metal bats, the 'take' sign should be non-existant.

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Originally Posted by VObserver

_ I hate to disagree, but you are wrong. Robe is a coach who has consistantly taken the bat out of the hands of his hitters. His philosophy is to get to the bullpen by forcing pitch counts high through the medium of taking pitches. Opposing pitchers and their coaches know that we will take until a strike is thrown, so they have no qualms about throwing down the heart of the plate with nothing on the ball both early in the count and on 'hitters counts', because they KNOW we are taking.

It is bad coaching on Robe's part. The only way to develop aggressive, yet disciplined, hitters is to coach them to hit 'mistake' pitches regardless of the count on the hitter, and regardless of pitch count. In the era of metal bats, the 'take' sign should be non-existant. _

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Ding, Ding, Ding. We have a winner. At least someone esle gets it.

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Originally Posted by VObserver

I hate to disagree, but you are wrong. Robe is a coach who has consistantly taken the bat out of the hands of his hitters. His philosophy is to get to the bullpen by forcing pitch counts high through the medium of taking pitches. Opposing pitchers and their coaches know that we will take until a strike is thrown, so they have no qualms about throwing down the heart of the plate with nothing on the ball both early in the count and on 'hitters counts', because they KNOW we are taking.

It is bad coaching on Robe's part. The only way to develop aggressive, yet disciplined, hitters is to coach them to hit 'mistake' pitches regardless of the count on the hitter, and regardless of pitch count. In the era of metal bats, the 'take' sign should be non-existant.

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V I think this is like an urban legend run amuck. Obviously our team has always been built around pitching but I think this idea that we are ONLY a "small ball" type club and that we don't let hitters hit has taken on a larger than life role.

When you see the stats below keep in mind that there are currently 296 teams playing Div 1 baseball.

Last year as a team we were ranked 44th in batting average and 16th in home runs per game. In 2005 we ranked 8th in batting average and 44th in home runs and in 2004 we ranked 10th in the country in home runs per game.

Sure there is some inconsistency from year to year but lets stop painting with such a broad brush.

I have no doubt that Tony plays his players and team to their strengths and to exploit the weaknesses of the opponent. Sometimes that is swinging for the fences and other times it is trying to manufacture just a couple of runs. Lafleur is going to try to bunt for a base hit because right now he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. By the way in his very limited action last year he batted .500. On the other hand no one expects Hawkins to be laying down the bunt for a base hit. My point is that I don't think we can pigeon hole this thing as nice and neatly as people would like to. It's a complicated problem belonging to a fairly simple game. :D