MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72

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Originally Posted by talktomewillis

... moving the needle.

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Hell, the needle moves more here than a seamstress with Parkenson's going thru DTs.

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Originally Posted by Cajunfanatico

Why are fans like UL Victory who believe we can do better, and demand of the administration and the coach that we do better, considered haters?

I hate the fact that I've pretty much given up on a sport that was my favorite for a long time.

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But they did do better. They won the SBC in convincing fashion just last year. Now obviously we have taken a step back this year but the season is not over. You don’t know how the our record will play out. If you did, you would go to a sports book and bet the house on the knowledge you possess. It’s a basketball season and it’s story has not been written yet.

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Originally Posted by CajunVic

Like I posted on another thread.

Hate is a strong proverb that should never be imputed upon anyone. I don't think we have any haters on this board, other than those that ascribe it to themselves.

Further, I really don't think that there is much separating the goals and expectations for this basketball program going forward between those that have the line of thought that the last extension bestowed upon the Big Fish was not warranted because his whole body of work, those supporting the Big Fish on this board, the Big Fish himself and the administration.

Where there is a difference is on the take/spin which is attributed to the Big Fish and the program from the start of his tenure through now.

Those guys look solely at 1 NCAA appearance and 1 NIT appearance to gage the program.

The others, apparently including DR M, see all of the other circumstances that have surrounded that sub-par performance to date and are more willing to give a pass through now.

I truly believe however that most across the entire group, including the BIG FISH and Dr M have pretty much the same goals and expectations of performance for this program going forward and believe that if he does not meet these, he will have to go. Dr M and the supporters are just willing to give a little more rope, at this time, based upon the past circumstances. Unfortunately, one of those unsavory circumstances raised its ugly head again last week in the loss of one of our best players.

All we can do is hold our heads up high and hope for the best for this year.

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Good post there. There is probably less disagreement in regards to basketball than the thread length may indicate. People who want a coaching change now are very few and even they knew it would not happen after last year. The extension and timing are what some question. We all expect more, including those in the program itself.

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Originally Posted by MetryCajun

But they did do better. They won the SBC in convincing fashion just last year. Now obviously we have taken a step back this year but the season is not over. You don’t know how the our record will play out. If you did, you would go to a sports book and bet the house on the knowledge you possess. It’s a basketball season and it’s story has not been written yet.

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Slight correction. We won the SBC regular season in convincing fashion, finally, last year, though by the end of those three days in March, it didn't feel like we'd done anything convincingly well. At that point I felt like the average Arky State fan after Nevada won the bowl game.....snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

I like Marlin. I think he's a decent man and a good coach. He seems to recruit decent kids and coaches them up. I like all that stuff. I just don't like waiting so long between NCAA appearances that I begin to feel like a neckster.

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Originally Posted by Cajunfanatico

Slight correction. We won the SBC regular season in convincing fashion, finally, last year, though by the end of those three days in March, it didn't feel like we'd done anything convincingly well. At that point I felt like the average Arky State fan after Nevada won the bowl game.....snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

I like Marlin. I think he's a decent man and a good coach. He seems to recruit decent kids and coaches them up. I like all that stuff. I just don't like waiting so long between NCAA appearances that I begin to feel like a neckster.

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Good things come in time. Sometimes it is a very long time.

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Originally Posted by talktomewillis

MAT is one of my better friends. I am not a member of that club.

I look at the total picture. I'm not so naive as to think everyone wins every year. Nor do I expect that as a fan.

I want the same things you do. I think where we differ is I don't believe you understand how hard it is to be very good every single year.

With a few exceptions, mid major programs have peaks and valleys. I don't think you get that. Or at least, you think we are, or should be, immune to it.

Examples? Check WKU in the last five years. You'll agree it is a highly thought of mid major program. How about Middle Tennessee this year? After several good seasons, they are not good at all.

You're one of those guys who wants it EVERY YEAR. We have finished out of the top four (on your list of expectations) four out of five years. That's pretty good. Not great.

When I said we were the second most consistent program in the league over the last five years, I said I wanted to be first. You must have missed that part.

You talk about more postseason appearances. Well, there was a time, as recently as Jessie Evans, when you had a solid season but didn't win your league, you got an NIT bid. That no longer is the case. So...you want to either win the league or the tournament damn near every year in order to keep you happy. OK.....got it.

Using TODAY's criteria for postseason play and applying it to the past, you'll see we aren't far off from the best days in our recent history. (post probation). Under Coach paschal, we would have made postseason twice in seven years. Yet he's considered the best coach we've had since probation. Marty Fletcher won a game in the NCAA tournament, but only made postseason twice in eleven years. Jessie would have had two in seven years. Robert Lee had one in six years. bob Marlin has two in eight years.

Now, read this carefully. I am only talking about appearances. And, that's because YOU were only talking about appearances. I am well aware the previous coaches had better quality wins. But if you were to bring that up, you would be moving the needle.

Again.

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When did I ever move the needle? I've always stated I wanted more postseason appearances and consistently finish top 4 in the Sun Belt.

As for it being harder to make the postseason these days, I understand that it's not easy. You're going to come up short every once in a while. That's why outliers exist. But that doesn't excuse it, either. And when you compare us to what Middle Tennessee has done, the argument doesn't help. Even though Middle has struggled this season, they've also gone to the NCAA tournament three times since 2013 (Round of 32 twice) with an NIT appearance last year. That's FOUR postseason appearances in the past six seasons, which also includes five regular season conference championships since 2012. I can only DREAM to have a run like that. Asking for a coach to be fired after that type of run would be laughable anywhere (unless you're Houston football). A one-year fall from grace gets a pass as long as it doesn't turn into consistency. Even Robe has had seasons like that, and like Marlin, you would never see me ask for his firing.

And yes, WKU has a respectable program. But I will also say that they have recently underachieved even though they made it to the NIT final four last season as an.........at-large. I guess that would make me a "hater" from a WKU fan's perspective (I don't like them anyway, so I'll wear that name proudly). Or as BOP used to say, a "faceless buffoon."

But we also have more resources, and we're paying our coach more money than what the previous coaches were being given. That also raises the bar of expectations. So when we fail to meet our goals, talking about the past or discussing the difficulty of making the tournament holds less water with me. It's time to earn that cash. And like I said before, I support the contract extension. Time to go produce.

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Originally Posted by RaginDave

Regardless of all the negativity here, I have one thing to say.....

Geaux Cajuns beat stAte tonight. I still believe in this team with or without Marquetti. I believe players will step up and we are going to sweep the Arkansas teams this week and be 11-4 and 2-0 in conference.

Not a bad place to be setting up big games vs Georgia State and Georgia Southern next week.

Geaux Cajuns!!!!!!!

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Love your optimism. I am sure the team believes they can have success without Malik. That is the first step to success.

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Originally Posted by ULvictory

When did I ever move the needle? I've always stated I wanted more postseason appearances and consistently finish top 4 in the Sun Belt.

As for it being harder to make the postseason these days, I understand that it's not easy. You're going to come up short every once in a while. That's why outliers exist. But when you compare us to what Middle Tennessee has done, the argument goes out of the window. Even though Middle has struggled this season, they've also gone to the NCAA tournament three times since 2013 (Round of 32 twice) with an NIT appearance last year. That's FOUR postseason appearances in the past six seasons, which also includes five regular season conference championships since 2012. I can only DREAM to have a run like that. Asking for a coach to be fired after that type of run would be laughable anywhere (unless you're Houston football). A one-year fall from grace gets a pass as long as it doesn't turn into consistency. Even Robe has had seasons like that, and like Marlin, you would never see me ask for his firing.

And yes, WKU has a respectable program. But I will also say that they have recently underachieved even though they made it to the NIT final four last season as an.........at-large. I guess that would make me a "hater" from a WKU fan's perspective (I don't like them anyway, so I'll wear that name proudly). Or as BOP used to say, a "faceless buffoon."

But we also have more resources, and we're paying our coach more money than what the previous coaches were being given. That also raises the bar of expectations. So when we fail to meet our goals, talking about the past or discussing the difficulty of making the tournament holds less water with me. It's time to earn that cash. And like I said before, I support the contract extension. Time to go produce.

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If you support the extension, many don't agree with that position, or at least the timing of it.

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Originally Posted by Cajunsmike

If you support the extension, many don't agree with that position, or at least the timing of it.

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You can't fire a coach after winning 27 games and winning a conference championship. But what you can do is ask for more consistency to compliment what he's getting paid.

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Originally Posted by ULvictory

You can't fire a coach after winning 27 games and winning a conference championship. But what you can do is ask for more consistency to compliment what he's getting paid.

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Damn turd in a punch bowl! LOL!!!

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Originally Posted by ULvictory

When did I ever move the needle? I've always stated I wanted more postseason appearances and consistently finish top 4 in the Sun Belt.

As for it being harder to make the postseason these days, I understand that it's not easy. You're going to come up short every once in a while. That's why outliers exist. But that doesn't excuse it, either. And when you compare us to what Middle Tennessee has done, the argument doesn't help. Even though Middle has struggled this season, they've also gone to the NCAA tournament three times since 2013 (Round of 32 twice) with an NIT appearance last year. That's FOUR postseason appearances in the past six seasons, which also includes five regular season conference championships since 2012. I can only DREAM to have a run like that. Asking for a coach to be fired after that type of run would be laughable anywhere (unless you're Houston football). A one-year fall from grace gets a pass as long as it doesn't turn into consistency. Even Robe has had seasons like that, and like Marlin, you would never see me ask for his firing.

And yes, WKU has a respectable program. But I will also say that they have recently underachieved even though they made it to the NIT final four last season as an.........at-large. I guess that would make me a "hater" from a WKU fan's perspective (I don't like them anyway, so I'll wear that name proudly). Or as BOP used to say, a "faceless buffoon."

But we also have more resources, and we're paying our coach more money than what the previous coaches were being given. That also raises the bar of expectations. So when we fail to meet our goals, talking about the past or discussing the difficulty of making the tournament holds less water with me. It's time to earn that cash. And like I said before, I support the contract extension. Time to go produce.

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I brought up Middle because they are in the toilet this year.

And, my point is, if WKU can have valleys with the resources they put into hoops, then anyone can. It's just the way it is nowadays.

Now, let's review and then I'll be done with this.

You made a comment about wanting to be in the top four of the league. When I pointed out we were, you immediately got on two postseason appearances in nine years.

Call it changing the subject. Call it moving the needle. Either way, you didn't even acknowledge it as fact until I pointed it out for the second time.

It reminded me of my dad when I was in college. Every time I'd make an A in a class, he'd immediately bring up another subject where I wasn't making an A.

I'm done with this conversation. Geaux Cajuns. Beat Arky State.

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Originally Posted by talktomewillis

I brought up Middle because they are in the toilet this year.

And, my point is, if WKU can have valleys with the resources they put into hoops, then anyone can. It's just the way it is nowadays.

Now, let's review and then I'll be done with this.

You made a comment about wanting to be in the top four of the league. When I pointed out we were, you immediately got on two postseason appearances in nine years.

Call it changing the subject. Call it moving the needle. Either way, you didn't even acknowledge it as fact until I pointed it out for the second time.

It reminded me of my dad when I was in college. Every time I'd make an A in a class, he'd immediately bring up another subject where I wasn't making an A.

I'm done with this conversation. Geaux Cajuns. Beat Arky State.

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"A's" are good.

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Originally Posted by talktomewillis

I brought up Middle because they are in the toilet this year.

And, my point is, if WKU can have valleys with the resources they put into hoops, then anyone can. It's just the way it is nowadays.

Now, let's review and then I'll be done with this.

You made a comment about wanting to be in the top four of the league. When I pointed out we were, you immediately got on two postseason appearances in nine years.

Call it changing the subject. Call it moving the needle. Either way, you didn't even acknowledge it as fact until I pointed it out for the second time.

It reminded me of my dad when I was in college. Every time I'd make an A in a class, he'd immediately bring up another subject where I wasn't making an A.

I'm done with this conversation. Geaux Cajuns. Beat Arky State.

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WRONG!

Go read what I posted again. You know, the whole part were I mentioned the importance of making the tournament and how great the exposure is for our school........you’ll see it in there.

THEN, I mentioned the demand for finishing in the top 4 of the conference.

So before you try to argue your point and accuse me of moving the needle, at least get it right first before running off and ending the conversation.

Come on softball season!

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Originally Posted by ULvictory

When did I ever move the needle? I've always stated I wanted more postseason appearances and consistently finish top 4 in the Sun Belt.

As for it being harder to make the postseason these days, I understand that it's not easy. You're going to come up short every once in a while. That's why outliers exist. But that doesn't excuse it, either. And when you compare us to what Middle Tennessee has done, the argument doesn't help. Even though Middle has struggled this season, they've also gone to the NCAA tournament three times since 2013 (Round of 32 twice) with an NIT appearance last year. That's FOUR postseason appearances in the past six seasons, which also includes five regular season conference championships since 2012. I can only DREAM to have a run like that. Asking for a coach to be fired after that type of run would be laughable anywhere (unless you're Houston football). A one-year fall from grace gets a pass as long as it doesn't turn into consistency. Even Robe has had seasons like that, and like Marlin, you would never see me ask for his firing.

And yes, WKU has a respectable program. But I will also say that they have recently underachieved even though they made it to the NIT final four last season as an.........at-large. I guess that would make me a "hater" from a WKU fan's perspective (I don't like them anyway, so I'll wear that name proudly). Or as BOP used to say, a "faceless buffoon."

But we also have more resources, and we're paying our coach more money than what the previous coaches were being given. That also raises the bar of expectations. So when we fail to meet our goals, talking about the past or discussing the difficulty of making the tournament holds less water with me. It's time to earn that cash. And like I said before, I support the contract extension. Time to go produce.

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Before Kermit Davis left MT to go to Ole Miss, his 7-year contract had him making $750K per year without bonuses and was scheduled to go thru 2023-2024. His contract at Ole Miss starts at $2.5M per year.

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Originally Posted by DieHard1280

Come on softball season!

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How dare you skip over basketball season, you hater!

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Originally Posted by CajunAmos

Before Kermit Davis left MT to go to Ole Miss, his 7-year contract had him making $750K per year without bonuses and was scheduled to go thru 2023-2024. His contract at Ole Miss starts at $2.5M per year.

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So, should we pay Marlin $750k so we can make the NCAA tournament three times in a six year span?

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Originally Posted by ULvictory

So, should we pay Marlin $750k so we can make the NCAA tournament three times in a six year span?

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The second marlin makes the tourny as an At-large or makes it to the second round pay him $750k

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Originally Posted by ULvictory

How dare you skip over basketball season, you hater!

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It'll still be basketball season when softball starts! :)

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Originally Posted by Cajunfanatico

Why are fans like UL Victory who believe we can do better, and demand of the administration and the coach that we do better, considered haters?

I hate the fact that I've pretty much given up on a sport that was my favorite for a long time.

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Fanatico,

Because we have fans that are comfortable with the status quo. And whenever you shake things up, they get uncomfortable and call you names.

If shaking things up and demanding excellence from our programs makes me a hater, then so be it.

I will proudly stand as the “Faceless Buffoon Hater.”

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Originally Posted by ULvictory

So, should we pay Marlin $750k so we can make the NCAA tournament three times in a six year span?

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Didn't suggest that. Since MT was brought up as an example, just wanted to note that their coach was making 1/3 higher salary. If he makes the NCAA tournament in 3 out of 5 years he probably deserves the $750K, but he may at that time be looked at by bigger institutions like Kermit Davis was. Not a negative as I'd like to be a school who is a victim of our success.

Of course paying Marlin more won’t make him a better coach. Obviously the greater pay actually should reflect our willingness to retain or aquire whatever coach is in question. That’s why a extension was foolish. Nobody was knocking on the Big Fish door.

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Originally Posted by cajun_lannister

The second marlin makes the tourny as an At-large or makes it to the second round pay him $750k

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If Marlin were able to put together a season good enough to get an at large berth here don’t worry about it. The next year another school will be paying him, and it will be a lot more than $750k.

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Originally Posted by talktomewillis

You made a comment about wanting to be in the top four of the league. When I pointed out we were, you immediately got on two postseason appearances in nine years.

Call it changing the subject. Call it moving the needle.

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I do believe the phrase, moving the needle, means something other than what you think it means. Perhaps saying, "call it changing the subject, or moving the goal posts", is more what you had in mind.

As for your comments about your dad, he wanted for you what we all want for our basketball program. A higher performance and more consistent result. Your dad was a wise man and looking out for your best interests.

And yes, Geaux Cajuns, beat the piglets.

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Originally Posted by talktomewillis

I brought up Middle because they are in the toilet this year.

And, my point is, if WKU can have valleys with the resources they put into hoops, then anyone can. It's just the way it is nowadays.

Now, let's review and then I'll be done with this.

You made a comment about wanting to be in the top four of the league. When I pointed out we were, you immediately got on two postseason appearances in nine years.

Call it changing the subject. Call it moving the needle. Either way, you didn't even acknowledge it as fact until I pointed it out for the second time.

It reminded me of my dad when I was in college. Every time I'd make an A in a class, he'd immediately bring up another subject where I wasn't making an A.

I'm done with this conversation. Geaux Cajuns. Beat Arky State.

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Top four was only one of his requirements. Really read it all. Mine is consistently top three, mostly real chance at regular season champs. Plus he’s going to the NCAA often. He’s done none of that nearly often enough, and never parlayed regular and NCAA appearances.

Being in the SBC 4th is similar to being 15-21 quarterback in NFL