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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
Cajunsmike
I don't think you need to take money from any sport to help softball. Their core supporters can make up what is needed to take the next step. Appears that is happening.
Thanks Mike. Just another indiciation then of the relative "health" of that sport at this university.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
CajunEXPRESS
Surely you jest 😂😂😂😂😂Saint Bobby, not street Bobby.
Marlin stole EP. it’s common knowledge EP wasn’t believed to be an early high school graduate. Well this same crowd used to bragg on ol Bobby getting EP under P5 noses even before he became legend.
Think you are confusing EP with Elijah McGuire. I don't recall any conversation related to when EP would graduate from HS. We took him because we saw things others did not. He did take his team to the state semi finals his senior year and earned his scholarship offer there. He was a late bloomer. No doubt about that. We need to find another one like him.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
TheRealZeebart
So after 22 pages of crap, I believe we can all agree that Basketball at UL sucks mightily and its not the players fault. Am I right?
Z
Depends on your definition of "suck". Players being brought in have simply not been good enough to win at a higher level. That is not their fault as most of them have worked hard to improve in their time here. However, when you think about it from that perspective, we are saying we really did not want them here as some should have been playing in the SLC.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
cajun_lannister
You live by Transfers you die by transfers much like football building a team with jucos has it's repercussions.
The ugly side of it is that we burned 3 scholarships and 3 years of development of for 1 year of success.
Transfers are part of the recipe for success at the mid major level. Bringing in 3 at one time is somewhat unprecedented but part of the reason that was done was because the top high school signee passed away earlier that summer. It’s not like there was a plan to throw this season away, and I still think this team has a chance to be a contender in the conference.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
ULvictory
Let me begin by saying that I never vilified Marlin when he mentioned the three games in March. Because he’s right. As a mid-major, three games in March is what makes it or breaks it for many (not all) teams trying to make the dance.
But here is where you lose me. You said that Lannister and I would be a lot more quiet if we wouldn’t have lost that “one freaking game in March.” Well yeah! That “one freaking game” ended our NCAA tournament dreams. So of course I was upset. Who wouldn’t be?
I’m going to take this a step further. Athletics is the # 1 marketing tool for a university. Outside of the Ivy League, most universities almost need athletics to promote their brand. No one would know who Butler, Cal State Fullerton, or Boise State would be if it weren’t for their respective success in certain sports. So here is the reality of making the NCAA Tournament. For four to five days, millions of people fill out brackets. It’s free publicity when those millions of people see your name on the bracket let alone choose you for an upset. Then, you’re on national tv playing in front of millions representing the name on your chest. It’s kind of a big deal, right?
But on here, I get the privilege of reading and literally seeing people justify why we come up short of this opportunity. Here’s the thing. I’m also a numbers guy. I know that investing into something demands a return on what is being put in. Honestly, in 9 years, are we REALLY getting a return on our investment? And no, I don’t want Marlin fired. I just want accountability. For too many years, our administration has basically left us in the dark when it came to transparency. Basically, it was a “don’t ask questions; just donate” mindset.” Fortunately, Dr. Maggard has a different vision that I still do trust even with this Marlin contract extension. But with that comes demand for results. So far, in 9 years, we have had 1 tournament and 1 NIT appearance. You can spin the “2 championships in 5 years” in every direction to Sunday. But the fact is this: 1 NIT and 1 NCAA appearance in 9 years. If we are going to invest into this program like we have, don’t get upset that fans raise their eyebrows if they feel like we come up short of our goals. And that is to make the postseason. That’s it. Whether it’s three games or thirty, the goal at the beginning of every year is to make the postseason whether it is the NIT or NCAA. I’m not even going to give thought to the CIT because any tournament that requires a school to pay their way in is laughable to me and a waste of money.
I’m not asking to make the tournament every year. But to say that we can’t be a consistent top 3/4 program with the money we have in the chicken ____ Sun Belt Conference is unacceptable. That’s not me “being a millenial,” that’s me just asking for a return on what we put into the program.
We have been a top 4 team most seasons. Need to take another step to make it a consistent Top 3.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
crazycajun
Absolutely they do, they cost a lot more also and get more help from the university that’s all im saying. We are fortunate here in that our baseball and softball programs are a lot less of a drag on the budget than majority of universities.
You are right about that. If you look at that NCAA report I posted on page 26, you will see that the median net losses for baseball and softball are drastically higher than here at UL where we are much closer to breaking even. At least that's what the audit says but all of our line items even out meaning revenue and expenses end up being equal so not sure how accurate it is but we all know those sports do better here.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cajunsmike
We have been a top 4 team most seasons. Need to take another step to make it a consistent Top 3.
Now, that is something I can get behind.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
CajunVic
It is apparent that you have no clue what I have been saying and I definitely have no clue what you have been saying or the point which you are trying to make. I tried, you tried and we are getting nowhere. As this has no bearing on the impending govt shut down, I say we leave it at that. Have a nice evening.
This is the most we've ever agreed upon. Later
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
ULvictory
1 NIT and 1 NCAA appearance in 8 years. There. Corrected.
As for the MINIMUM demand of finishing in the top 3/4 of the Sun Belt, I’m glad we have done that. But it should be expected with our program, especially with the crummy teams we face.
But big picture here........postseason........millions of people seeing our name on a bracket when they fill it out.........
That should be our goal. And I shouldn’t constantly have to hear spin when we fail to accomplish that. As a donor, it’s insulting.
It is the primary goal. Coaches and players say that often and they have been more disappointed than anyone at not reaching it more often. Only "spin" I have offered is that not having 2 of your Top 6 players at tourney time was a major factor in falling short. Previous years they were just not good enough to win it. Need to recruit better players to make it more consistently.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cajunfanatico
Don't know about everyone else here, but this doesn't impress me. Is it supposed to?
HAHA!
It was an attempted “gotcha” by Willis when I stated that we should be consistently competing as a top 3/4 program in the conference. And it was also an attempt to basically say that I’m getting what I’m asking for, even though it was my minimal demand.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cajunsmike
It is the primary goal. Coaches and players say that often and they have been more disappointed than anyone at not reaching it more often. Only "spin" I have offered is that not having 2 of your Top 6 players at tourney time was a major factor in falling short. Previous years they were just not good enough to win it. Need to recruit better players to make it more consistently.
Come on, Mike. It’s not that we aren’t good enough. I was told that the modern landscape of college basketball doesn’t allow for it. LOL
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
Cajunfanatico
That was my exact thought as well.
Also, how the athletic department reports allocated income and expenses may not always reflect the exact situation. I'm sure there's some leeway there. For instance, in this very thread, someone showed the basketball revenue and expenses balancing out to the penny. What's that tell ya?
How many season tickets does softball sell?
While I'm sure it's more expensive for a baseball or softball team to travel than it for a basketball team just due to the numbers, there are so many other factors involving each team's playing conditions, it'd be really interesting, at least to me, to see an actual breakdown of revenue and expenses by sport. The numbers might be surprising.
Did you see the audit posted? Did you see my report by the NCAA? How do you know what money it generates in profit if you don't know the expenses?
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/fi...l_20180123.pdf
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
CajunT
I spoke to him about last year in Houston. It's not something he is found of after listening to his comments.
OK. Thanks for response. Still wonder if he would be OK with it if donors picked up cost. He may feel it is time to focus on the diamond sports if you can't qualify for one of the two main tournaments. Still that means you have to win a championship to play in post season. 2nd place in either the regular season or tournament is not good enough. This is a minor deal in comparison to all the other decisions he has to make. I am good with whatever he says in that regard.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
Cajunfanatico
Don't know about everyone else here, but this doesn't impress me. Is it supposed to?
Not sure if it was meant to impress or not. Don't think so. I think the post of top quartile four times in five years was just given as a fact. The one year we missed was when a Bryce Washington layup at the buzzer that spun in and out at Georgia State put us in the opening round instead of 3rd. Note there are 12 teams in the league.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
Cajunsmike
OK. Thanks for response. Still wonder if he would be OK with it if donors picked up cost. He may feel it is time to focus on the diamond sports if you can't qualify for one of the two main tournaments. Still that means you have to win a championship to play in post season. 2nd place in either the regular season or tournament is not good enough. This is a minor deal in comparison to all the other decisions he has to make. I am good with whatever he says in that regard.
I won't discuss the details of the discussion, but we did not discuss the subject of donors picking up the cost. He did state that the funds are better spent in other areas when discussing minor tournaments.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
ULvictory
Come on, Mike. It’s not that we aren’t good enough. I was told that the modern landscape of college basketball doesn’t allow for it. LOL
One team in the league wins it every year. Winning three straight games is a crap shoot. That is why so many different teams win it. I tend to agree with Zephyr in that winning the regular season championship or being in the Top 3 consistently is more reflective of a healthy program. What has changed is the abiltiy to get to the NIT or NCAA without the league title is virtually impossible.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
CajunT
I won't discuss the details of the discussion, but we did not discuss the subject of donors picking up the cost. He did state that the funds are better spent in other areas when discussing minor tournaments.
Understand not discussing details of conversation here as some things are said in confidence. I often keep some things that I hear private as well.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
MetryCajun
There are 22 pages of post because we don’t agree. Of all the teams UL currently has MBB is easily a top quartile performer. Only baseball and softball are more successful. I am not happy with the current situation either, but MBB is not hurting our brand or taking funds away from our mediocre football team. Probably the craziest thing said here is we should pay our coach less than ULM and concentrate on softball. Softball!!!! A sport no one but us and 20 other schools give a ____ about.
If you want to complain about wasted resources look to softball.
Mike come on man... We have gotten rid of coaches for mediocre performances recently, we just keep rewarding this guy. Why?
Z
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cajunsmike
One team in the league wins it every year. Winning three straight games is a crap shoot. That is why so many different teams win it. I tend to agree with Zephyr in that winning the regular season championship or being in the Top 3 consistently is more reflective of a healthy program. What has changed is the abiltiy to get to the NIT or NCAA without the league title is virtually impossible.
Winning the regular season championship will always be an accomplishment. But in the broader picture, does it really push the program forward if we can’t make the dance? I know there’s bad teams out there who make the dance by getting hot at the right time, but give me a team with a winning record and a tournament berth any day of the week. The national exposure we get tops anything else we accomplish.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
zephyr
Zeph, I know something about profits and losses. I also know what's reported by the university and by the NCAA can be very convoluted, to say the least. Coaches salaries? Well, those in La are reported only to the level that Louisiana law allows, everything else is covered by RCAF donations, yada yada yada.
Not sure exactly your point with your comments above. Perhaps you're even agreeing with me.
As it relates to my comments about the sale of baseball and softball season tickets, or any season ticket sales for any sport at the university, know the number, know the value, and one can at least make some sense of a revenue stream to the university from those respective sports.
That's all I was saying.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
TheRealZeebart
Mike come on man... We have gotten rid of coaches for mediocre performances recently, we just keep rewarding this guy. Why?
Z
We have not gotten rid of coaches that have been the Coach of the Year in both the state and league the previous season. That does not happen anywhere other than for cause. Now giving an extension is a different matter. Understandable some wanted to wait until after this season to make that decision. You would have to ask Dr. Maggard why he decided to do it in October rather than March. I have asked if anyone has had that conversation and no one has responded.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
ULvictory
Winning the regular season championship will always be an accomplishment. But in the broader picture, does it really push the program forward if we can’t make the dance? I know there’s bad teams out there who make the dance by getting hot at the right time, but give me a team with a winning record and a tournament berth any day of the week. The national exposure we get tops anything else we accomplish.
Agreed and that is why it is the main goal. Stated several times by people in the program. My point was in regards to judging the program on an overall basis. No argument it is better to win the tournament. You still have to produce a quality team in order to do that. Rare for a team not playing well going into the tournament to win it.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
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Originally Posted by
Cajunfanatico
Zeph, I know something about profits and losses. I also know what's reported by the university and by the NCAA can be very convoluted, to say the least. Coaches salaries? Well, those in La are reported only to the level that Louisiana law allows, everything else is covered by RCAF donations, yada yada yada.
Not sure exactly your point with your comments above. Perhaps you're even agreeing with me.
As it relates to my comments about the sale of baseball and softball season tickets, or any season ticket sales for any sport at the university, know the number, know the value, and one can at least make some sense of a revenue stream to the university from those respective sports.
That's all I was saying.
I agree. It just sounded like you and others before you were assuming that we had to make money from a program that sells 4,000 tickets although you likely aren't aware of the overall expenses of the sport. I just know that the spring sports traditionally across the board cost their university much more money than basketball. I'd rather not keep getting into this though.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ULvictory
Winning the regular season championship will always be an accomplishment. But in the broader picture, does it really push the program forward if we can’t make the dance? I know there’s bad teams out there who make the dance by getting hot at the right time, but give me a team with a winning record and a tournament berth any day of the week. The national exposure we get tops anything else we accomplish.
I have debated this often, particularly last year. I believe that our program needs to breed a consistent winner. We have been all over the place for the past 30 years or more. Good season here terrible the next. People often ask, which would you prefer out of the two scenarios you suggested. I don't think there necessarily has to be a distinction between them or you have to choose one or the other.
I think we need to build a program from the ground up. We need to define our successes by winning conference titles. Believe it or not, this gets the attention of players. They want to play for winning programs. My thought on this is that once you are building a consistent winner, you will be in a better position to win your conference tournament and go to the dance. At the least, if you win conference like we did last year, you at least get to the NIT.
By doing this, we are hopeful that recruiting is consistently strong and we are naturally setting high expectations from our current and future players that we are expected to win titles. Like I said, you do that and you are naturally in a better position to make the NCAA.
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Re: MBB G13 Final: Louisiana 73, SLU 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zephyr
I agree. It just sounded like you and others before you were assuming that we had to make money from a program that sells 4,000 tickets although you likely aren't aware of the overall expenses of the sport. I just know that the spring sports traditionally across the board cost their university much more money than basketball. I'd rather not keep getting into this though.
Zeph, simple decisions such as how to apply administrative costs to the different programs under the athletic department's umbrella could greatly affect the "profitability" of each. And as has been stated here repeatedly, there aren't but a handful of programs in the entire country that actually make a profit at the end of the fiscal year in athletics.
You may not want to keep getting into this, but I am actually beginning to really wonder how the different sports stack up against one another on the single line item issue of revenues generated via season ticket sales. Wouldn't you like to know that number? Can't be too hard to figure out.
Football
Men's basketball
Women's basketball
Baseball
Softball
Number of season tickets sold for each, value of each season ticket sold.
I guess my reason for wanting to know is that the final number is a real indicator of fan support for each. We fans can't control how much it costs to send the baseball team to a 3 day tournament in California, but we can decide if we wish to shell out XYZ for the season in one lump sum payment.
