Printable View
The number one criteria for deciding whether or not to open up a spillway is if keeping the spillways closed will cause damage to the levees along the river. If the levees are damaged then we will have a serious problem on our hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieK
That is what I have always understood. Those decisions are made by the Corps of Engineers, not the state, and I don't think the fisheries enter much into their thinking either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by HelmutVII
its all to protect the ____hole called New Orleans just like the new protection levees that dump storm surge onto Mississippi and flood out areas like Pearlington every time a storm comes north. Areas of south Mississippi that had rarely flooded over time now have water for even small storms due to the protection levees that divert water to the east to keep it out of New Orleans
So are you saying you’d rather the Saints get flooded out of State and Pearlington, MS be sitting dry?!?....j/j...this is a great thread, very knowledgeableQuote:
Originally Posted by billbeck451
its just not Pearlington that higher tidal surges since the new protection levees went up but all along the western Mississippi coast, its pretty simple math, if you take a volume of water and direct in into an area half of what it usually flows the levels will be higher meaning areas that had flooded once or twice in 60 yrs now flood regularly
I’m no expert for sure, but if/when nature takes over the Mississippi, where would the new port city end up according to the experts?
Baton Rouge, just through the Atchafalaya. Or everything will shift to the Port of Houston. There is literally 200 ships awaiting to go to port in a Houston. At least triple the volume of what is anchored off of the Miss.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoomZoom
Franklin or huomaQuote:
Originally Posted by ZoomZoom
Not on the current or "new" Atchafalaya but Lake Charles would be a possibility
Yes. Terms frequently used to avoid confusion are "left descending bank" (LDB) and "right descending bank" (RDB). As you are going downstream (and you are facing downstream), the bank on your left is LDB and vice versa.Quote:
Originally Posted by HelmutVII
That’s only because a ship hit a barge and closed down the channel, Houston is busy but not 200 ships waiting busy. And they are still somewhat recovering from the channel being closed after the explosion a few weeks ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by cajun4life
I’ll take a picture next time I fly over there. It is always more busy outside of the Houston ship channel.Quote:
Originally Posted by BananaHammock
The Miss River is easier to navigate though so the boats don’t stack up like they do outside of Galveston.
I don’t need a picture, I’m well aware of how busy each port is. And I apologize if I’m coming off arrogant, because that’s not my intent, but they both have their own challenges and perks.Quote:
Originally Posted by cajun4life
NOLA is the bigger in terms of tons moved but Houston is bigger in terms of foreign trade/vessels. The Mississippi River being easier to navigate is not necessarily the reason for vessels not stacked up or stacked up. It’s actually easier for 2 vessels to pass in the River than Houston but high water levels can contribute to logistics issues with barges, etc.... that can cause vessels to be delayed and anchored up offshore.
Port of Houston as a whole takes up much less real estate (on the water) than the River does so congestion happens in that manner. NOLA is actually part of the Port of South Louisiana which covers a lot of area on the river and many more docks, places of load/discharge, etc.... Houston moves more containers and more general cargo which takes longer to load/discharge than the mostly bulk cargo on Miss River.
info relative to Red River Landing (RRL) gage and Morganza Control Structure
RRL gage located at Mile 302.4 on right descending bank (RDB), approx 10-12 miles below Old River
RRL historical high reading 63.39 on 5/18/2011
RRL on 5/14/2019 was 60.8
Consideration for opening Morganza (mile 280) when flow at RRL is 1.5 million cfs and rising. Used to also require a gage reading at RRL to be 58 and rising. Not sure if that is still a parameter that is considered not that it was considered on its own since the reading this morning was 60.8.
Morganza designed to handle 600,000 cfs max.
For reference with respect to Morganza:
5/14/2011 first 2 gates opened
5/18/2011 last of gates opened. 17 total open
5/24/2011 first gate closed
6/27/2011 lost hydraulic connection between forebay and Miss R
6/29/2011 one gate left open to drain forebay
6/30/2011 3 gates reopened to facilitate draining
7/01/2011 2 gates reopened for draining (6 total remain open)
7/07/2011 last 6 gates closed
ORCS complex including Sydney Murray Hydro plant, overbank structure, low sill structure, auxilary structure, Old River Lock.....upstream to downstream approx river miles 316.6 to 303.7
Forgot to respond to your postQuote:
Originally Posted by HelmutVII
Davis Pond at Mile 118.4, approx 15 mile upstream of NO. It is east of the 310 bridge and St Charles, across the river from St Rose. Designed for 10,650 cfs max, 1,000 cfs min. On the RDB.
Caernarvon at mile 81.5, approx 15 mile downstream of NO, near the Plaquemines/St Bernard parish line. Designed for 8,000 cfs max, 500 cfs min.
Bonnet Carre Spillway designed for 250,000 cfs max, approx 25-30 miles upstream of NO on LDB between Norco and Montz
wow about 2.5 feet from 2011 high. the link below is for Knox Landing, it's gone up about 2.0ft on 6 days.Quote:
Originally Posted by mahtoo
https://waterdata.usgs.gov/la/nwis/u...20,63160,00060
In my opinion Davis pond should be more like Bonnet Carre with a constant higher outflow than current volumes. It would do more to build land to the south of New Orleans.Quote:
Originally Posted by mahtoo
A Bonnet Carre type structure would definitely result in higher sediment load transfer but would most certainly would result in effects to salinity levels beyond what was agreed to between all agencies involved during planning. I don't remember what the controlling salinity levels are but if you look at operations reports you can see Davis Pond and Caernarvon are operated at the lower design levels a majority of the time, at least they were the last time I looked.Quote:
Originally Posted by HelmutVII
https://forecast.weather.gov/product...n=1&glossary=0Quote:
Originally Posted by HelmutVII
Site for 30 day forecast that I visit. I page down and look at the last 8 columns.
Greensburg (I believe)
Vicksburg
Natchez
Red River Landing
Baton Rouge
Donaldsonville
Reserve
New Orleans
They obviously like their oysters more than the land they live on because there is no way they are replacing 1.0 to 1.5 centimeters per year subsidence with those flow rates. Pretty short sighted in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by mahtoo
.....I had read/heard that the water eats away the grass on the levies and this allows them to weaken....how do the levies actually get weakened for breaking? I hope this is not too boring for you, but inquisitive minds hope for the dumbest minds at times!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by HelmutVII
Is the river destined to go through the old river structure regardless of man's effort. Naturally we’re reminded of how puny we are with things like yellow stone super volcano likely to destroy 2/3 of the lower 48 at any given moment. Already thousands of years overdue.Quote:
Originally Posted by HelmutVII
You're aware of some of the issues involved in projects like this. I'm curious to know whom the majority landowners are in the affected area. Wouldn't surprise me that some out of state corporations own that land. Even if not it's likely property owners are pitted against shrimpers, oyster men, etc. And then you have the agencies:Quote:
Originally Posted by HelmutVII
Corps
USFWS
LDWF
DOTD possibly
Railroad possibly
NMFS
Levee Board
Probably others
All with their own priorities and focus
And then the project has to be funded/cost shared
Sometimes I'm surprised anything gets done at all. I do agree more could be done with respect to sediment transfer but....but....but.....
Your question reminds me of the N.O. District Engineer, Colonel ? (don't remember his name) who answered a question during a public hearing where a question was asked about the amount of money being spent to protect Grand Isle. In so many words he said "Grand Isle is a barrier island. If we/you stop spending money to protect and or rebuild it that barrier island will disappear". He was right. In the last 30 years or so many millions of dollars have been spent at Grand Isle.Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunEXPRESS
IMO the same can be said of our many structures and levee systems. As you say we, our structures, levees, etc are puny but I don't think we will see the Miss R going down the Atchafalaya, at least not in my lifetime. As long as we pay attention and spend the money.
Of course, if we have a failure right now like we had years ago on the LDB of the Miss in the vicinity of Montz, LA then it's Katie bar the door. That was a deep seated foundation failure that required a complete levee setback. Luckily the failure occurred at a time when river stages were low and repairs were completed before flood season. Hope I never see that.
I think we have a better chance of an errant barge or a ship losing it's steering causing damage to a levee during high water events.Quote:
Originally Posted by mahtoo